Starting a Cycle?

[texhorns98]

I apologize in advance for the multiple threads I'm about to start. I have a list going of things I needed to address here on the site!

I have set up my daughters 37 gallon in her nursery at this point and have around 30lbs or fully cured LR with some base as well, and about a 2 inch sand bed of new sand with a little from my big tank.

I thought I've read in the past where you could get a cycle going with some flake food, so I added a few pinches. Then I realized I'd be better off with some Rod's food. Will that get things moving? Should I expect a shorter cycle with so much LR already in the tank?

 

[ralph atl]

either food is fine.......add some "stability".............from seachem.

 

[texhorns98]

Kinda what I figured. So should I expect a shorter cycle or am I still looking at a month?

 

[ralph atl]

test it, you'll find out.

 

[texhorns98]

Thanks Ralph, I KNOW that much!

I'm just wondering if I might miss the cycle if it's really short or even possibly non-existent.

 

[ralph atl]

I guess what I was saying.....you won't really know for sure....you'll have to test to get your answer......it should minimize it, but should doesn't equal yes.

 

[texhorns98]

I figure if I don't have any problem params after 10 days or so, I should be OK. Bad idea?

 

[rolo65]

The cycle will depend on the tank....there's no set time frame....some take months.....mine only took 4 days....but that was because I used alot of LR from my 4yr old tank plus newer LR....flake food can work....but Stability is one of the best things IMO....or you could hold your cat over the tank and scare the pee out it....

 

[ralph atl]

Bad idea since adding livestock could start another cycle. I would have thought you'd learn some patience by now....lol

 

[texhorns98]

Ralph, you say "another cycle". If I've cycled, what else needs to happen before I add a fish? Once the cycle is complete, does the system benefit from additional time? What if there's no more organics for the bacteria to work on?

 

[ralph atl]

if you never have a cycle, or just a "small" one, when you add bioload you can easily start another cycle especially with a tank that size. You put a yasha hase in a 2000 gallon tank, nothing....you put a large clown in a newly started system, add some food, etc., bam!

 

[jennm]

Moving cured rock from one vessel to another, you shouldn't see a "cycle".

I usually recommend waiting until you see the diatom bloom (which is inevitable). If the water tests fine at that time, you're safe to go S-L-O-W-L-Y.

While you might not see an ammonia spike (and with cured rock from established system, you shouldn't see a spike unless something is wrong), the water needs to find its ionic balance (ph/alk/ca/mg etc.) and the diatom bloom is your indicator.

Did I mention, go slowly?

Jenn

 

[brianjfinn]

Just to add to the above, even if you don't see a cycle doesn't mean there's enough bacteria to be able to handle a bio-load. There needs to be enough time for the bacteria to multiply to a level that will be able to convert additional waste. Same reason why if your tank was 100 years old you wouldn't be able to add 10 fish all at once.

Let the bacteria multiply to a level that can adequately sustain the current nitrogen cycle, then add livestock slowly so that the bacteria will have enough time to multiply again and convert the additional waste.

I have always waited at least a couple weeks after the cycle has been completed to add anything to the tank. Most will say this is overkill, maybe even unnecessary, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. Besides, that gives more time for algae and other stuff to begin growing to feed the clean up crew.

 

[jennm]

If the rock that was moved from another tank was already handling a fish/coral load, it should be able to maintain that.

I'm not suggesting moving/adding a pile of livestock in immediately, just saying that cured rock moved from another, established system should be able to to support starting off slowly without any spikes.

I've been doing it this way forever (well many years at least).

I'm not sure why people think they need to force an ammonia spike when taking cured rock into a new vessel, but that seems to be popular thinking.

Jenn

 

[texhorns98]

Thanks Jenn, that is kinda what I'm thinking. The only thing going into this tank are two clowns and maybe a pistol shrimp/goby pair after I do some research. There will be zoas and mushrooms once I figure out my lighting issue. In fact, nothing is going in there until I figure out the lighting.

I dropped a couple pinches of Rod's Food in this afternoon. I'll give it some time and test in a few days. There's probably 35-40 lbs or rock in there and 25-30 of that was from an established tank. I'm already seeing pods on the glass!

 

[texhorns98]

mysterybox;531329 wrote: if you never have a cycle, or just a "small" one, when you add bioload you can easily start another cycle especially with a tank that size. You put a yasha hase in a 2000 gallon tank, nothing....you put a large clown in a newly started system, add some food, etc., bam!

Not to belabor the point, but what would your suggestion be to do in this case you're talking about? If there's nothing for the bacteria to convert, I would think they would not multiply. Are you saying you would need to keep adding raw shrimp or something else over time to build the bacteria and possibly have several mini cycles?

Again, not trying to argue...just learning.

 

[brianjfinn]

Ralph's point is just to make sure you're adding livestock slowly and giving time for bacteria to accumulate.

 

[jennm]

That rule of going slowly to give the bacteria time to catch up is universal, whether starting a new tank, or adding to an established one. Each time more bioload is added, it will take a bit of time for the bacteria to adjust their numbers to compensate for the additional waste.

The rock all by itself is generating some waste - because the flora and fauna that occupy it will be eating and pooping too, that's why a vat of nothing but live rock (ie in a LFS, or somebody "cooking" rock) stays live, and the skimmer will continue to collect organics - because the tiny inhabitants are providing their own biological junk to keep it going.

Rather than throw food in to "rot" if you're in doubt, use some Stability (Seachem) - that is its intended purpose.

I seriously doubt you'll see any ammonia though unless you put a crazy amount of food in there to rot. It's quite likely that the fauna that are already in the rock are already consuming it.

Jenn

 

[fish scales2]

Trey test daily and record findings. All above post are dead on. But in your case you are bound to see an ammonia spike. No reason just the fact it is you.:yes:

If live rock is left out of water for any time at all it will have a little die off and create a small spike. Not saying that you left it out to long just that (you) will see a spike.

Here is what I think I would do:

Follow ammonia cycle and record
Diatom bloom-add crabs and 20% water change
1 week later add snails
1 week later add first fish (Yasha goby with pistol shrimp)
Following day 20% water change
2 weeks later add cleaner shrimp and cb. cleaner goby maybe sharknose
2 weeks later 2 baby clowns and first tester coral (zoa or paly)
Continue water changes every 2 weeks for the first several months and then you can back off to once a month if you do not add any sps.

Many ways to go about, but I feel this is reasonably quick.

 

[texhorns98]

Chris, again you prove to be wise beyond what everyone says. You're right, I'll probably get ammonia off the charts and some mysterious beam of energy will come through the sky and make my tank 4000 degrees kelvin!

FWIW, the rock was never out of the water more than 10 seconds or so.