Suggestions on how to attack these issues

[danh]

I was out of the country for almost 2 weeks and had a non-fish friend watching my tank. Instructions - replace ATO and feed. He ended up doing a little more than replacing ATO. Caused some alk and ca precipitate, spiked ph and dropped salinity... I'm recovering from those things. I think the xenia and birds nest may be the only things that felt it too bad.

In doing that the optical sensor on my ATO got gummed up and I've got a mess. I'm going to pull the sump tonight and see how much water is under, but I'm fearing I'm going to have to completely drain the tank to move it and steam clean the whole area. The base of the stand might be toast too - that's my biggest concern.

I've got a 140g I can re-seal in the next 2 weeks or so and have up and ready to transfer over. With all of the LR and sump media I think a hot swap would be pretty easy. I'm just going to have to get on this re-seal and get it right this time.

My other thought is to ask you guys to borrow a 40 breeder or something to use temporarily so I can get the 90g drained and moved this weekend. I've got a 20 long and two 10gs but I feel like moving everything to a 40 would be a better idea.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions, offers?

 

[Adam]

I have a 40 breeder I bought during one of the $1/gallon sales. Was going to use it for a frag tank down the road but it's sitting empty right now. I also have an empty 55 that I'm planning to sell. It's a Tetra and is fully tempered so a hang on overflow is the only thing that can be used for it.
You're welcome to use either or both of these.

 

[snowmansnow]

ouch man.
imo a good controller with remote access and a camera is better than a non fish friend watching things. (add to the controller a coral / fish person's number in case something looks fishy and you have a winning combo).
That being said hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20

IMO monitor your NO3 levels for the next while in case you get some die off because of the spikes. If you have substantial livestock be prepared to move the corals / fish to a "hospital tank" with fresh water while you make appropriate adjustments to the home tank.

 

[snowmansnow]

How far is Villa Rica from Rome? If you're still needing a hand I may be able to help, but it will be a few days.

 

[danh]

it's an hour or so.

I don't have a lot of livestock. I can fit it all in a 40g I think. My biggest concern at this point is the tank and the floor. I've got to move the 90g.

I have an Apex. I could see the ph spike and I asked him what he was doing... It was really the ATO issue that was the worse. The ATO isn't on the apex. I had my camera up too... but it's on an old S5 with a bad battery. It couldn't keep the charge running the camera even while it was plugged in.

I called the guy and we had a conversation... It wouldn't have been good... but much more manageable without the ATO issue..

 

[snowmansnow]

what ato was it? if i can ask...
and what happened... it just stay on or something?
is a kalk reactor running through the ato?

 

[danh]

Smart ATO with an optical sensor. The precipitate from the guy manually topping off when he shouldn't have covered the lens. So the sump was full and then when he plugged it back in it dumped until it timed out. It was several gallons. I'm not sure how many times that happened. No reactor, but if you recall my alk and Ca have been a little low recently, so my ATO jugs were mixed up pretty strong.

 

[Adam]

Judging by your Apex I would say it happened 5 times. There were 2 big PH spikes out of those 5 and they were the 1st to happen. 1st was to 9.5 and the 2nd and biggest was to 10. Those are also the ones that took the longest to drop back down to your normal of low 8's. They happened on the 7th & 8th.
Over those 5 days the salinity dropped about 8.4ppt according the your Apex. Since then you've got it back up 1.3ppt.

Brandon, Would you say it's best to get the salinity back to normal for a couple days before starting the move? And how fast can he raise it?

 

[Adam]

Or would it be better to get the move over with and continue raising the salinity in the temporary tank?
With that big of a drop Alk, Cal & Mag have to be real low...

 

[danh]

I knew how many manual top offs there were... IDK how many times the ATO dumped gallons on tot he floor. I can't see it in the ceiling down stairs at least.

 

[danh]

anit77;1101143 wrote: Judging by your Apex I would say it happened 5 times. There were 2 big PH spikes out of those 5 and they were the 1st to happen. 1st was to 9.5 and the 2nd and biggest was to 10. Those are also the ones that took the longest to drop back down to your normal of low 8's. They happened on the 7th & 8th.
Over those 5 days the salinity dropped about 8.4ppt according the your Apex. Since then you've got it back up 1.3ppt.

Brandon, Would you say it's best to get the salinity back to normal for a couple days before starting the move? And how fast can he raise it?

Just topping off with salt water since I've been back to slowly bring it back up. Some of the sps is a little bleached but polyps still look ok. I think it will all recover.

 

[danh]

anit77;1101144 wrote: Or would it be better to get the move over with and continue raising the salinity in the temporary tank?
With that big of a drop Alk, Cal & Mag have to be real low...

Ca 305 alk 5.6 before I started raising it.

 

[Adam]

The salinity drops coincide with the ph spikes. I would think it overflowed 5 or 6 times getting a little worse each time. Otherwise the guy would have noticed the wet floor.

How much extra water space is there in the sump when the system is running and how many gallons are in your top off containers?

 

[snowmansnow]

salinity would definitely be my first goal.
if his alk just went to 10 then he isn't out of bounds there outside of simple swings. Its still an ok range.
salinity, however isn't as forgiving in my experience.

I'd also bet that the alk and such will come back to where he wants it more as he brings the salinity back with water changes.

so yes... salinity first imo

 

[danh]

anit77;1101148 wrote: The salinity drops coincide with the ph spikes. I would think it overflowed 5 or 6 times getting a little worse each time. Otherwise the guy would have noticed the wet floor.

How much extra water space is there in the sump when the system is running and how many gallons are in your top off containers?

I think he manually filled the sump up completely. It can hold 5-10 gallons extra normally. I think it put half of the 5g ato jug on the floor a day... Maybe.

 

[danh]

SnowManSnow;1101149 wrote: salinity would definitely be my first goal.
if his alk just went to 10 then he isn't out of bounds there outside of simple swings. Its still an ok range.
salinity, however isn't as forgiving in my experience.

I'd also bet that the alk and such will come back to where he wants it more as he brings the salinity back with water changes.

so yes... salinity first imo

Water changes doing it quicker than topping off with salt water?

 

[Adam]

SnowManSnow;1101149 wrote: salinity would definitely be my first goal.
if his alk just went to 10 then he isn't out of bounds there outside of simple swings. Its still an ok range.
salinity, however isn't as forgiving in my experience.

I'd also bet that the alk and such will come back to where he wants it more as he brings the salinity back with water changes.

so yes... salinity first imo

It was the PH that jumped up to slightly over 10. No idea how high the Alk jumped the 1st couple of top off errors. After that salinity dropped enough that I doubt the Alk rose very high.
I figure the salinity dropped to about 26.6ppm and it's now about 27.9ppm. This is based off his Apex, probably be a good idea to confirm with a refractomer reading.

I too believe that the big three will get back close to normal as the salinity rises. Dan is bringing the salinity back up by using salt in his top off water. He has been pretty adverse to water changes.
Do you think the best way to get the salinity right would be to do a series of 15-20% water changes to bring it up slowly, while being faster than the top off method.

Based on his water volume of 105 gallons he needs to add 12.5 cups of salt to the top off. To do it this way using 15 gallons of top off water the salinity would need to be 49ppt in that water. At that rate it will be weeks before it gets to 35ppt. Also, can you get it to 49ppt? I mean that's higher than the Red Sea and wouldn't a lot of the calcium precipitate out?

Doing 5 20 gallon water changes it would be back in 5 days.
1. Remove 20 G and then add 20 G @ 38.5 ppt
In order to reach 30 ppt.
2. Remove 20 G and then add 20 G @ 40 ppt
In order to reach 31.9 ppt.
3. Remove 20 G and then add 20 G @ 40 ppt
In order to reach 33.45 ppt.
4. Remove 20 G and then add 20 G @ 40 ppt
In order to reach 34.69 ppt.
5. Remove 20 G and then add 20 G @ 36.3 ppt
In order to reach 35 ppt.

Danh;1101150 wrote: I think he manually filled the sump up completely. It can hold 5-10 gallons extra normally. I think it put half of the 5g ato jug on the floor a day... Maybe.

Ouch

 

[danh]

I didn't do the math and I guess I didn't have a good feel for how that math would work. I guess I need to mix my water hot and do water changes. ATO isn't going to do it.

I'm going to have to transfer everything to another tank anyway. I guess it'll be a much better plan to move things to the 40g or whatever I end up using and then bring up the salinity there. I may drain 20% or so of the tank tonight and leave it without the sump running to start drying the stand some more. I'd have to leave it overnight without a skimmer, just running the powerheads. I'll remove the sump and assess the damage.

If I can get the 40g tomorrow, I'll move everything to the 40g and continue increasing salinity there. I'll try to get my skimmer a spot in the 40g to sit on something so I can use it there.

 

[Adam]

Don't know if you've found something close to you but if you need the tanks I have let me know.

Hell, I'll give you the 55 and you can keep it.

 

[danh]

I don't think the 55 will fit in my car. I can meet you around lunch time though.