Sump / Fuge Build. Suggestions Needed!

[basscyn]

I got a 40 breeder from Dawg. Here is what I want to do.

Even though the "one directional" approach is the standard, and probably the easiest. I prefer to have the return in the middle of the sump and the refugium on the end. This way I can control the flow in the fuge. Having it in the second chamber just doent seem right to my noob mind. Looks like there would be too much flow.

There is also a lot of set ups like this that break off the return water to the fuge. This doesnt seem right either. That way the fuge only received skimmed water.

I also saw a set up that had the water entering the first chamber that was full of live rock rubble (thought that was pretty cool). So I have diagramed it that way.But would I need a soilid baffle there or just egg crate?

Anyway, I am pretty set on this type of set up. (unless you talk me out of it).
My real question for you experts is PLUMBING. Will this work? I dont have a dual overflow box yet. I was gonna get one though. A single input box may be easier.

Any plumbing/ valve or baffle advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks as always

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[derek_s]

That would work fine. I have seen some sumps that are actually built that way, so it's not a bad idea. I would even think that setup to be even better than the traditional inlet/fuge/return setup. Just make sure put ball or gate valve/s in key positions so you can adjust the flow.

On the LR baffle, I would make it solid (not egg crate) just so the water is force all through the rock, and the incoming bubbles would be reduced/broken up more.

 

[rockdog]

I am by no means a plumming expert!! But I would come out of the overflowdown to the FUGE section, I would install a T and Ball valve after the T to control the flow to the fuge. I can't post a pic or I would draw it for you.

but I will try here, warning this will be crude!!!


I
I
I
I
L__________________
I I
I I
I I
I I
O <----ball valve I
I I
I I
I I
fuge return skimmer

Hopr that is clear I am no artist or plumber!

 

[rockdog]

the above picture is not what I drew the second columb of I should piont to the skimmer section.

I to looked right B4 i posted it, the thing took out all the spaces I put in. I have no clue why....


sorry

 

[basscyn]

Barbara,
So I really dont need the bubble trap separating the Fuge from the return. (I wondered about that). Just one baffle with teeth at the top or drill holes at the top. I was stressing a little on cutting teeth. I am sure it would look crude. If drilling holes serves the same purpose I think I can make that look muck nicer. Thanks for the tip.
Is Marc Levenson a member. I will do a search.
Thanks!

Cris,
Thanks for the tip on the LR chamber. That makes perfect sense.

Dog.
I dont get it man. I want to understand your point but I just dont follow you. I will keep looking at this diagram. Is it like on of those deals where if you stare at it for a while you start to see like Dolpins and stuff?
:lol2:
Sorry...couldnt help myself.

Seriously. Ball valve and tee placement is REALLY what I need here. I only want to do this once.

Please reiterate.

 

[rockdog]

ok I will try words again.... pictures don't work. I never got those stupid staring pictures anyway....

OK I would come out of the overflow down to a T then off the T i would run across to the skimmer section ,with a valve if you want.(not needed though). Off of the striaght side od the T put in a small peice of pipe and a Ball valve, after that valve into the fuge.

I would not put a valve in the skimmer line so there would be an unrestricted flow. In the event the return pump is on and both valves are closed the tank would overflow. With no valve, the skimmer would get any excess water. Just something I would do because I am stupid and would close the valve and run the tank over.

Like I said I AM NOT A GURU just full of ideas or is that full of tihs!

hope this helps!!

Jason

 

[seedless reefer]

This is how I had mine.

I finally tore it out, threw it away and started over!

Best of luck to you sir.

 

[roland jacques]

looks good. you probably dont need baffles for the refugium a side.

i like to add a section for carbon and mechanical floss coming of of the skimmer side . but some use a seperate reactor instead

 

[basscyn]

Yeah....Thanks dog. I see. Thats actually the way I was gonna do it anyway. I just could get that fancy with MS paint.

Loren,
Please elabarate. You cant just drop a bomb like that and run off. Its like Thread Terrorism.:yes:

If you have some insight to a design like this please let me know.
Thanks!

 

[basscyn]

Updated a bit and a little more information added.

This sump is not located under my tank. I am going through the wall into the closet behind the tank. The sump will also <u>not</u> be parallel to the DT. I plan to join both lines off the dual overflow box right behind the DT. The new single line will go through the wall and across the top of the sump. The first chamber the water enters will be the fuge. A tee and ball valve will be placed there to direct a slower flow. The remainder of the water will be directed over the LR chamber. Also with a ball valve to regulate flow.

Again...any assistance in proper placement of these valves and tee will be greatly anticipated!!

:thanks:

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[rockdog]

that is knida what I described. I am just concerned about the ball valve feeding the LR, if you pinch it off to slow the flow you may, over time, overflow the tank. You would be better off putting a valve in the return line to control total flow. Just an Idea. It will not hurt a pump to put a valve after it. It will just think the head is higher. If you are using an external pump do not put a valve in the supply line to the pump it will burn it up.

Good luck!! and have fun that is what this is all about isn't it!!

 

[basscyn]

Help me dog...I think I'm gettin close.

Even if I went with the standard...
>skimmer>fuge>return set up, the water entering the skimmer/LR chamber would have to be controlled by a ball valve to match the out put of the return pump.Right?

Why would this be any different? Is it because I have water entering the return chamber from both the other two chambers?

I guess I assume it will be just like my wet/dry set up. Water enters the unit...goes through all the chambers, then up the return. The challenge is getting the intake flow (ball valve) to match the return flow to keep the unit from either overflowing or running dry.

Is this process differnt in a sump/fuge environment?

Someone please turn on the light!!!!

:help:

 

[basscyn]

Barbara;162775 wrote: Chris, yes, I drilled holes because we couldn't router the teeth neatly. The holes work the same way as teeth.

I agree with Rockdog that a ball valve going to the rubble pile is not necessary. Instead, put it after your return pump. I run mine wide open, but I had to start it out with the valve, work with the valve going to the fuge, and then slowly notch up the one going after the return. You do need a valve going to the tee off to the fuge so you can regulate the flow in there.

Marc Levinson is, in my opinion, an aquarium genius. He is an honorary member, but you are better off going to his website for pictures of his sumps. His site is melevsreef.com.

Ok...that makes sense. I guess I was just worried about restricting the return pump. Seems like it might burn it up.
What if the flow into the unit is too great for the return pump?

 

[basscyn]

Ok. The fog is begining to clear a bit. Again I am just use to regulating the inlet. I have a pump that is 500gph.I had not considered a more powerful pump. but that does seem to address my concern about flow.

So again...looks like I need to hit the drygoods forum for a new pump. I probably need to do that before I seal in the baffles too.

Thanks Barbara!!

 

[basscyn]

Barbara;162782 wrote: I use a Mag 9.5 for my return. I started out with a 55G DT, and 29G sump, and an HOB overflow weir with 2 one inch U-tubes (supposedly rated for 1250 GPH overflow). The Mag 9.5 is rated at 950 GPH, however, it more than kept up with the overflow.

I wish you could have come to the February meeting. Marc Levinson was our guest speaker and he talked about the fact that you don't have to have too much flow through the sump. You can make up for the flow with powerheads in the DT, or closed loop or some other method of moving the water. If you have not yet purchased a hang on back overflow, maybe you could go with a 1 u-tube instead of 2. The one tube models typically rated at about 650GPH. You have options. Just make sure that your return pump can keep up with the overflow.

Here's a picture of my sump when I still had it under my 55. Of course I tied the feed line for the fuge in with my return pump. I later learned that was not ideal, and I plan one day to re-do it using the drain water from the DT to feed the fuge.

Yes...I have been to his site. Its awesome! I have learned a lot there. I did not realized he spoke at a meeting. That would have been great!
I thought I had read something about including your powerheads in your flow calculations. I just initially thought it was all about how many times you cycle the water through your sump per hour...but thats not nessesarily the case huh.If I add a couple of powerheads I dont need to run a 1200 gph overflow wide open.
I just read a link that said a salt water tank flow should be 30x the tank size. WOW.

Thanks Barabara.

 

[rockdog]

30X my be a little high for a mixed reef. It is in the good to GREAT range for an SPS tank and WAY overkill for a fish only. Total turnover minmums are kinda like this Fish Only 10X, fish and live rock 15X, mixed reef 20X, SPS mostly reef >20X (sometimes called as much as you can afford). My mixed reef only has about 10X through the sump and about 12-14X in powerheads. so my overall turnover is 22-24X. I think you would be fine with the drawing you have. Return in the middle I think is the best way to go. If I had it to do over again I would custom build my sump that way. As far as having to restrict the output of the pump, that will be nessisary if you oversize the pump as compared to the overflow (which is a good idea). Once it is set upI would try and set my total through then sump system (LR/skimmer section and return pump) FIRST then adjust the flow to the fuge. This will reduce what is going through the LR/S section but that is ok the total flow through the SUMP SYSTEM will not change.

I am in L'Ville too! I am no EXPERT in plumming, electrical on the other hand I have overed. I would be glad to stop by one day and offer what little knowledge I have. Feel free to PM me.

Jason

 

[rockdog]

As an after thougt I call my tank a MIXED reef because I have a little of everything in it. I have fish, LR, softies,LPS and even a few frags of SPS that are growing (I guess I am doing something right). I would have to go and look at to list the stock, but lets just say it is diverse!!

Good Luck!

Once you are in this hobby you are in hooked in for a long ride!!!

 

[basscyn]

Yes Barbara, I plan to add livestock very slowly and take my time. My son keeps pushing for us to add more...more. But I think patience is best. I am kind of in a hurry to get set up properly though. I want to get a sound foundation. One that will allow me to progress from a fowlr through the natural progression of the hobby. I know it will happen...I just want to lay as much groundwork as possible. I thing this sunp/fuge is a big peice of the puzzle.

Jason, thanks for the offer man. I may take you up on that. I am going to be doing the baffle work this week (hopefully). May get to the plumbing next weekend.

Thanks all!

 

[rockdog]

10-4 just pm!

 

[basscyn]

Roland Jacques;162740 wrote: looks good. you probably dont need baffles for the refugium a side.

i like to add a section for carbon and mechanical floss coming of of the skimmer side . but some use a seperate reactor instead

Hey Roland. Can you tell me a little more about this? Would I just add a baffle or something?