Tear Down or Roll The Dice?

[texhorns98]

Wow, this question might bring out as many opinions as we have members!

As some may know, I just lost my powder brown and one clown to what we think was brooklynella. My purple firefish has gone missing now, but since he showed no sign of anything Friday, I'm not ready to call him "gone" just yet. As of now, I am feeding small amounts of food everyday that have been mixed with metro, Focus, Garlic Guard, and Vitality. Everyone is eating very well, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Let's assume symptoms go away. Now what?

From what I can gather, the only way to assure my system will be ich and brook free would be to catch up the remaining fish and run fallow for 6 weeks. Then QT everything from now on for a minimum of 30 days in a tank with no substrate, one fish at a time. This would create a problem for me in that I just don't see how I can catch my watchman and the firefish without breaking down the whole tank. I purposely was careful to lay down rock first so that I didn't have "dead sand" sitting under my rocks.

Now let's assume for a moment that the above just can't be done. At that point, what is the real purpose of QTing anything beyond a few weeks to see if the fish has something? Won't ich, brook, or whatever else might be in my system, ALWAYS be in there? And if that's the case, is there really any reason to QT besides giving the fish a chance to rest and eat without competition?

Sorry for the long post.

 

[elfloyd]

Not sure about brook... however, ich goes through a life cycle that includes a time where the parasites are free swimming and looking for a host. By keeping the tank free of any potential hosts (fish) for 4-6 weeks the ich will die off.

A UV sterilizer will also help kill off any parasites, but you may get mixed reviews on this.

 

[coolsurf]

elFloyd;338610 wrote: Not sure about brook... however, ich goes through a life cycle that includes a time where the parasites are free swimming and looking for a host. By keeping the tank free of any potential hosts (fish) for 4-6 weeks the ich will die off.

Basically the truth. I am not all that worried about MI as I would be Brooklynella. Stress brings out MI and exist in many tanks without ever seeing any sign of it. Brooklynella on the other hand worries me a lot more. If you can treat the fish and the symptoms go away, you may be all right.

 

[texhorns98]

Thanks Larry. I understand the reason behind running the tank fallow, I'm just worried about how difficult it would be to do, AND if I would have any negative results of placing my LR back on top of the sand bed. I suppose the consequences of that would be no worse than having brook and/or ich in the system! Are their really people out there who can guarantee that hey have no parasites like these in their system? You would have to QT corals for 30 days as well. That would prove difficult.

 

[jeep9783]

Ick is in every tank...it is a matter of the fishes imune system as to weather they are succeptible to it or not...if a fish is healty the ich gets nothing if they are unhealty it equals a fish with a low immune system therefore more lickly to get ich...If you feed garlic constantly you should never really have an issue with ich especially if you are running a uv...dosing all food with garlic A: Triggers them to eat B: As they injest the garlic it works from the outside in repelling most unwanted parasites internal and external...$20.00 bottle of garlic to me is well worth the welness of the fish as i am still using the bottle that i bought more than a year ago and have well over 1/2 of the bottle left. I don't think there is any need to tear down the tank just feed garlic from now on and add a uv (if you don't already have one)

Personnaly i think that stress is the main reason for fish getting ich etc...

Chris

 

[texhorns98]

ares;338619 wrote: the whole ich thing is a bit of a mystery IMO.

whether a tank will actually die off all ich if run empty... hmmm, Im skeptical. even more skeptical that quarentining a fish will keep it out. I think ich is ever present in all tanks, waiting for an opportunity to arise. of course its population probably surges and decreases if there is an outbreak or if everyone is healthy. but Id say if the purple firefish shows no signs for 2 months, that would be good enough for me.

Do you QT then? Seems like if your opinion held to be "fact" then QT would only be to give the fish a chance to rest and eat without any competition. Not that that wouldn't be worth it in and of itself. Might cut down on the overall stress of the new animal which could keep it from breaking out with the parasitic symptoms.

 

[jeep9783]

I think that even in a tank full of batterie acid there eventually would be some sort of parasite that would evolve to live there as long as there was something to host off of

 

[coolsurf]

There are never any guarantees. The only QT I do is with new fish. If the stress level is low enough, they will not contract MI but there are still other parasites I watch out for during QT. There is still nothing to say they will not contract MI once entered into the DT and are faced with new competitions for food and increased stress there. Some tangs are notorious for developeing MI in a heartbeat...and shake it just as fast. Fools many...fools me!

 

[texhorns98]

So coolsurf, what is your process for QTing a new fish? Why bother with that process if it's not for the purposes of keeping parasites out of your tank? I'm not trying to be combative, I'm truly curious.

 

[texhorns98]

Also, please everyone keep in mind that I am dealing with what we think is brooklynella, I'm not sure they behave the same way, etc.

 

[texhorns98]

ares;338633 wrote: this is just an opinion, but I look at it kind of like the common cold. its all around us all the time. when we get run down we become more subsceptable to it, and if we are stuck in a room with a sick person that also increases our chance.

so QT works on the latter. even if there is ich ever present in the tank, the healthy fish easily keep it at bay. throw in a sick fish and now it can get a foot hold.

on the flip side, a sick fish can be treated in QT if it does pop up. in the display its game over most of the time.

so let a new fish prove not to be infested already, and also allow the chance to medicate if he is.

Excellent points...to be sure. What is your QT procedure then?

 

[texhorns98]

Well then, that's what as me so puzzled! Seems like the act of QT, IF it doesn't guarantee your DT to be parasite free forever, might stress the fish out even more. I don't know, I'm confused as get out now!!

 

[coolsurf]

IMO a QT serves 2 general purposes. It assist in relieving stress in the fish being by itself instead of potential harassment initially created when introduced to a new DT. The fish goes through enough stress during it's journey home. The second purpose is to identify any potential parasites that can pop up after the fish comes home that you may not have seen initially. This could be internal parasites, flukes or a viral infection. If you see these, you can treat the fish in QT and feel good that it was not introduced into your DT. Once in your DT, then you have to go through the process of finding and capturing the fish and adding more undo stress to it, it's buddies and yourself. (Rockwork just isn't as nice to have once you have to chase a fish through it!).

I usually leave the fish in there anywhere between 2-4 weeks depending on the response of the fish and how brave you want to be. My newest addition (my Anthias) became friends with me in the QT tank and was not the least bit stressed when added to the DT.

 

[texhorns98]

I think I'm in agreement, coolsurf. I will QT from now on just to be safe. I have a 10g now with a little HOB sponger filter and a small heater. What's your setup consist of? And process?

 

[coolsurf]

Basically the same. Heater, thermometer, HOB filter that I run have Matrix in, cover and a light. I added a small barrel decoration for shelter at night. Keep an eye on your par levels as ammonia sneaks up on a new tank fast (the cycle). You may have to change water every couple of days until it stabilizes. Once established, if you have the space, just keep it up and running for emergency use. Normal acclimation proceedures apply.

 

[texhorns98]

Hmmm, I'll need to pick up a little strip light at PetSmart and I'll be set! Should I run the sponge in my sump for a few weeks to pick up some bacteria?

 

[coolsurf]

Yes, it will help. That is what I do with the Matrix. Take out of one tank and move it over to the other.

 

[texhorns98]

ares;338695 wrote: FWIW, I do now have a frag tank setup, and it has no frags in it lol, its just a set of empty 29g tanks. plumbed into my main system, means it gets the water changed on the normal schedule, top off, UV, Ozone, temp, ect ect ect basicly I dont have to maintain a whole other system. I will likely put my future fish into there, so I can watch them, catch them if needed. meanwhile they are not competing for food or getting bullied.

Ah yes, but no meds in that tank either! Easier to catch up if needed...for now. I can't imagine it will be any easier to catch them up once it's full o' frags!

 

[steve]

Brookynella from my experience doesn't hurt any fish besides clownfish.

 

[texhorns98]

Steve;338784 wrote: Brookynella from my experience doesn't hurt any fish besides clownfish.

I thought this as well, Steve, but research will show you that (while most common in clowns) it can affect may other types of fish.