Tear Down or Roll The Dice?

The other clown went down while I was at work...crap. Also, I've seen no sign of the purple firefish. Crap, this is REALLY discouraging at this point. I've lost probably $350 worth of fish in less than a year. All to what I think is brooklynella. She's a quick acting, evil one. What to do now? I'm sad...
 
I'm glad you came back and erased that comment, Steve...but I was still able to read it obviously. It's alright, I ain't mad at ya! FWIW, I went back and tallied everything up again (probably a bad idea). I've lost closer to $500 in fish in less than a year. And Steve, those losses occurred over two separate 3-day periods! :)

Last time I had a wipeout, I upgraded. Maybe I should go for it again? :lol:
 
How did you read it? I erased it right after I posted. I know it sucks to lose fish man. Been there done that.
 
If you subscribe to a thread, it sends you an email with a copy of the message that was just posted. Be SURE you want to post it before you hit "post"!!
 
I am sorry to disagree, but my tank hasn't had ICH in more than 3 years.

here are some things to read over:

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html">http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html</a>


[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=281656"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...d.php?p=281656</span></a>

<u>[IMG]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php</span></a></u>

<u>[IMG]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php</span></a></u>

[IMG]http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx"><span style="color: #22229c">http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx</span></a>

[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21804"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ad.php?t=21804</span></a>

[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3661"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ead.php?t=3661</span></a>

[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21804"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ad.php?t=21804</span></a>

[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=265394"><span style="color: #22229c">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...d.php?p=265394</span></a>
 
all you have got to do is steadily feed food with garlic...only thing that i have lost fish to is a mantis shrimp since august...well that and carpet surfers...

that is if you aren't already using it but very doubtfull since it helps greattly reduce the amount of fish lost...when i worked at petco (yea i know) i asked my boss to let me try something (garlic in food) i charted it over 30 day period and the losses went down by 50% and corporate still will not let me use it...they introduced some b/s that you dose that is in 1gallon jugs into the sump that smelled like rotten dog crap and it did nothing at all...the reason why i no longer work there...(i was just doing it to stay out of trouble not for the money)...shortly there after that is when i quit because of all the corporate mumbo jumbo...hate to see that amount a fish die....all i am saying is try garlic it wont hurt...you can go on forever and ever and get 1,000,000.0456 opinions but this i beleave is the easiest no other tank to setup no stressing the fish with nets etc...just a couple drops of garlic in the food
 
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/brooklynella.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/brooklynella.htm</a> (clownfish)

[IMG]http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/41106-brooklynella.html">http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/41106-brooklynella.html</a> (clownfish)
[IMG]http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/26552-brooklynella.html (clownfish">http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/26552-brooklynella.html <span style="color: black">[B](clownfish[/B]</span></a><span style="color: black">[B])[/B]</span>

just try it
 
Thanks for the links Ralph, I'll get threw them a little at a time, I'm sure. Jeep, I JUST started feeding with garlic on Sunday. I'm not sure if it's a cure all (just like I'm not sure UV does much), but I'm willing to give it a try since it's not that expensive and it certainly can't hurt. I am using Garlic Guard now, anyone out there just use regular store bought jar garlic?
 
garlic guard, kent's extreme are all fine, I would imagine. If I used store bought, I would use fresh in either a food processor or cheese grater.
 
Now that I think back on it, in a pinch I used some of that jar garlic a couple of times. Coincident or not, it was the day I saw symptoms, and the day before I lost both sets of fish. I hope I didn't kill them!
 
I doubt it, pure speculation on my part. I don't know what preservative and other ingrediants that are in that?
 
I use the kent garlic...you are more than welcome to come by my house and i can let you borrow the bottole as it is highly concentrated...i use in one weeks worth of food two drops...i feed mysis, phyto, zoo plex, marine snow, 1cube brine, and 3-4 cubes of rotifi a pinch of flake food all mixed in a glass cup with two drops of garlic that i leave in the fridge....i will even make you some food if you would like....i wasn't trying to sound like a smart *** or nothin....i hope that you didn't take it that way....i just see so many people go waaaaaay overboard when sometimes the very little inexpensive things can fix the problems most of the time...my tank is by no means amazing as i am just restarting and i add very very little at a time in my tank as i am comission at my work and the economie hasn't been doing so great
 
Well, it just goes to show, don't EVER give up hope. After assuming I lost the purple firefish, out he popped this morning looking happy as can be! I swear I could hear him in there..."what? you guys were looking for me? I was napping..."
 
Glad the purple has showed up again - how about the other 2?

Steve - while clowns are the most prone to Brooklynella, they don't have exclusivity to it.

It could also be amyloodinium - symptoms look like brook somewhat - but it responds to copper, the way ich does (of course, NOT in the DT!)

Trey - it's a pain to pull the rocks to get the fish, but you can scoot the sand to the front of the tank, re-stack your rock and scoot the sand back again... we've done it countless times.

And as to the ich debate... I've read all the science that says that leaving a tank fallow will get rid of it completely - and I cannot refute that science, because it makes absolute sense.... HOWEVER I've seen ich come back when it should have been impossible.

I think the only way not to have ich, is not to have fish, period...

I do disagree that garlic wards of parasites because it makes the fish seem unpalatable, but I do subscribe to the notion that the garlic can boost the immune system. Often it's not the parasite that kills, it's usually the secondary bacterial infection that comes about after the parasite has left an open wound to become infected.

I use garlic - and I believe in its benefits, but I do think it's a bit optimistic to think that it's the "only" thing needed to prevent or treat illness.

It's all about the big picture - good water quality, low stress, varied diet, and healthy specimens. All of those things need to be in place. UV can help but it's not a cure-all either... and plenty do just fine without one. Take any one of those basic necessities out of the picture and pathogens have a foothold.

Jenn
 
Very glad to hear your firefish came out. Those are normally tough little buggers. +1 to Jenn's comment that Garlic aids the immune system but is not a ward off supplement. I believe in it very much but things can still creep in...no matter how proactive you are. My CB is battling something right now and I hope she can shake it. I believe it is some type of internal parasite so even though you try to prevent things, they still hit ya.
 
JennM;340262 wrote: Glad the purple has showed up again - how about the other 2?

Steve - while clowns are the most prone to Brooklynella, they don't have exclusivity to it.

It could also be amyloodinium - symptoms look like brook somewhat - but it responds to copper, the way ich does (of course, NOT in the DT!)

Trey - it's a pain to pull the rocks to get the fish, but you can scoot the sand to the front of the tank, re-stack your rock and scoot the sand back again... we've done it countless times.

And as to the ich debate... I've read all the science that says that leaving a tank fallow will get rid of it completely - and I cannot refute that science, because it makes absolute sense.... HOWEVER I've seen ich come back when it should have been impossible.

I think the only way not to have ich, is not to have fish, period...

I do disagree that garlic wards of parasites because it makes the fish seem unpalatable, but I do subscribe to the notion that the garlic can boost the immune system. Often it's not the parasite that kills, it's usually the secondary bacterial infection that comes about after the parasite has left an open wound to become infected.

I use garlic - and I believe in its benefits, but I do think it's a bit optimistic to think that it's the "only" thing needed to prevent or treat illness.

It's all about the big picture - good water quality, low stress, varied diet, and healthy specimens. All of those things need to be in place. UV can help but it's not a cure-all either... and plenty do just fine without one. Take any one of those basic necessities out of the picture and pathogens have a foothold.

Jenn


I agree with everything you said, except (of course!) that ich will always be in your tank. Either your tank (or sand, live rock) didn't remain didn't remain fallow long enough (I keep hearing that's it's actually longer than 6 weeks) or the fish that were reintroduced had it on them (but not visibly, i.e., especially if they are in gills.

But either way, good advice!
 
Mysterybox - like I said - I can't refute the science - I just know what I've witnessed. Fallow tank for 6-8 weeks, fish treated with full 14-day therapeutic dose of Cupramine and asymptomatic for all of the latter weeks (4-6), re-introduced to the DT and POOF - ich.

Happened to the same guy more than once - had us scratching our heads. We did eventually find stray voltage in the DT which we believe caused enough stress to induce the ich outbreaks - but even following the science, fish treated with copper to supposedly eradicate the stuff - they showed NO symptoms, and re-introduced to a DT that had NO hosts for 6 weeks or more, and still the darned thing came back.

Once we solved the voltage issue, the ich subsided. I suspect it was still in the system but the problem that caused the fish to become vulnerable had been addressed.

The only possible reasons were that a 14+ day therapeutic dose of Cupramine in a QT didn't kill it all and they carried it back in, OR, somehow it stayed dormant until suitable hosts were reintroduced. I don't know which it was... but that just led me to believe that where there's fish, there's (the potential) for ich. And I won't even try to dispute science to the contrary, because I can't. The science makes perfect sense - but what I've seen defies the science.

That wasn't the only time I've seen ich resurface - but it was the most "absolute" time when everything was done by the book, yet the problem still came back.

As to Trey's stuff - we think it's Brooklynella (or possibly amyloodinium) and he had one fish that survived the first wipeout, and is possibly a carrier, and brought it into the new tank/new fish.

Jenn
 
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