The other extreme, no substrate at all

[jigsaw1982]

I'm moving to a bigger tank. I was asking people their opinions on deep sand beds and I've heard some of their opinions on the other extreme...no substrate at all. How do some of you think this would work? Keep in mind I currently have live rock and coral. Is sand or substrate absolutely necessary? I relize that live sand helps create the biological filter/beneficial bacteria but I plan to use most of the water from my current tank which will have the beneficial bacteria from my current tank. Does anyone have any ideas/input on this issue?

 

[dine]

As long as you have SOMETHING for bacteria to grow on (live Rock in your case) then sand isn't essential. But keep in mind that many of our little creatures need the correct substrate to thrive.

 

[Jaycen B.]

I would use all new water for the new tank, no need to keep the old water just match your prams. and you will be good. Your live rock will have all the bacteria you need.

 

[frantz]

Depending on layout, sand reflects light as well. Again, not vital but it's nice. While sand has often been associated with shifting rocks because of settling, if you start with the rocks on the glass and put sand around them, the sand helps hold them in place, so just make sure you have the rock work well constructed. If you want to try some artistic stuff, no sand could open the chance to have lights below the tank shining up, never seen it done, but might look kinda cool.

 

[chefrepo]

I have 2 bare bottom tanks. One is a 60 cube and the other a 40 breeder and I can tell you that I will never have sand in any of my tanks. I love being able to direct the flow any direction I feel like and not cause a sand storm, I can vacuum all the detrius off the bottom, no rock shift due to sand coming out from under the rocks, I can grow corralline on the bottom and it looks better than sand IMO.

 

[rdnelson]

Jaycen B.;765728 wrote: I would use all new water for the new tank, no need to keep the old water just match your prams. and you will be good. Your live rock will have all the bacteria you need.

Agree totally with this. Bacteria does not reside in the water column. It resides on hard surfaces. That is why porous live rock is better than something solid and dense. It gives lots of surface area for bacteria to grow on. If you have enough rock, you can do without the sand but sand does help.

 

[sleepyreef]

Jigsaw1982;765720 wrote: Is sand or substrate absolutely necessary?

Sand is about as beneficial as a skimmer. Some wouldn't live without it, while others are thriving without it. I have a skimmer, but no sand.

Haven't you heard of bare bottom reef tanks?

Just don't buy creatures that need sand like some wrasses and anything with "sand sifting" in front of their name.

 

[rskillz]

Keep in mind that if you run "bare bottom" you will need a LOT of flow on the floor of the aquarium to prevent waste+detritus from building up. This fact alone is why I didn't like BB at all, too hard to keep the bottom sparkling clean. I also think a sandbed looks a lot more natural.

 

[ripped tide]

Rskillz;765775 wrote: Keep in mind that if you run "bare bottom" you will need a LOT of flow on the floor of the aquarium to prevent waste+detritus from building up. This fact alone is why I didn't like BB at all, too hard to keep the bottom sparkling clean. I also think a sandbed looks a lot more natural.

Agreed. I had bare bottom in my 210 for a while and it just looked dirty.

 

[jigsaw1982]

Frantz;765732 wrote: Depending on layout, sand reflects light as well. Again, not vital but it's nice. While sand has often been associated with shifting rocks because of settling, if you start with the rocks on the glass and put sand around them, the sand helps hold them in place, so just make sure you have the rock work well constructed. If you want to try some artistic stuff, no sand could open the chance to have lights below the tank shining up, never seen it done, but might look kinda cool.

Thats a good idea, thanks for the idea

Edit:

chefrepo;765733 wrote: I have 2 bare bottom tanks. One is a 60 cube and the other a 40 breeder and I can tell you that I will never have sand in any of my tanks. I love being able to direct the flow any direction I feel like and not cause a sand storm, I can vacuum all the detrius off the bottom, no rock shift due to sand coming out from under the rocks, I can grow corralline on the bottom and it looks better than sand IMO.

Good Points

 

[ripped tide]

When algae grows over the bottom glass, you won't see much light.

You could put two mp40s on the bottom, aiming up, to help keep detritus off.

 

[falos]

Ripped Tide;765781 wrote: When algae grows over the bottom glass, you won't see much light.

You could put two mp40s on the bottom, aiming up, to help keep detritus off.

Or 1 mp 60 on full blast and not worry about circulation it all

 

[rhyerob]

You'll hear people argue this until they are blue in the face on one side or the other. Both have their place in the reef aquarium but I prefer the look of sand. Some people have gone as far to make an epoxy sand bed that is solid to get the look of sand and the benefits of a bare bottom tank (if you want to call them benefits). It's just my opinion that we're creating a small ecosystem that's supposed to mimic the ocean and therefore how can you do that without sand. But that's just my opinion, many people have been very successful with bare bottom tanks.

 

[rhyerob]

I will note my frag tank will be bare bottom

 

[rdnelson]

Rhyerob;765788 wrote: It's just my opinion that we're creating a small ecosystem that's supposed to mimic the ocean and therefore how can you do that without sand.

My feelings as well. To me, it seems much easier to not have sand but it just doesn't look natural.

 

[rhyerob]

rdnelson99;765791 wrote: My feelings as well. To me, it seems much easier to not have sand but it just doesn't look natural.

I agree 100%. I feel bare bottom is cheating. I can say this because...I don't run carbon. I don't have a uv sterilizer. I have a cheapo sea clone skimmer. I have zero reactors. I dose two part cal/alk plus magnesum without measuring. Only other dose is reef fuel and iodide. My temp can range between 76-82 degrees. I have more frags then I know what to do with...but my setup was anything but the easy way out. Or the conventional wisdom. So if you like the way bare bottom looks then by all means do it. Don't ever let anybody tell you that you can't do anything. This is 70% art and 30% science. When what you have artfully crafted begins to fail...rely on science. Sorry for hijacking your thread

 

[rhyerob]

Again unless it's a frag tank hooked up to your entire system. Then it make sense because you won't loose anything.

 

[sleepyreef]

I run my 40 breeder bare bottom. I use to have sand but it seemed more of a nuisance to me. My bottom is purple due to coralline algae. If you siphon the bottom out during water changes then it stays clean.

But take my opinion with a grain of salt. My tank is setup on an open 2x4 home made stand with no sump, in tank skimmer, no sand, and I run my carbon/GFO mixed through an AC power filter. I'm not cheap, just don't see the need. Hrm what else am I doing wrong??? Oh yeah, I am running a 150 MH on one side and a LED (not member modified :wow2 on the other.

Oh and when I went bare bottom I was amazed at all the crap sand hid that now I can siphon out of my tank (ie: snail and hermit crab poop). Turbo snails take massive dumps.

 

[codsack]

The thought of putting a couple mp10's on the bottom is enough to make me try it. Once the entire bottom is covered in coraline algae, I think it would look sweet. Plus you could DJ an amazing zoa garden!

 

[dine]

CodSack;765835 wrote: The thought of putting a couple mp10's on the bottom is enough to make me try it. Once the entire bottom is covered in coraline algae, I think it would look sweet. Plus you could DJ an amazing zoa garden!

thought you were out of the zoa game