So I'm in the process of setting up my 120 gallon. I have a reef octopus 150 SSS on my current 75 gallon. Honestly, it's been sitting there collecting dust for the majority of this year because my nutrients have rarely been high enough to use it. My chaeto usually takes care of everything and when it stops growing then I know my nutrients are too low. I'm thinking of getting rid of my skimmer altogether and just making a bigger refugium section. Thoughts?
To skim or not to skim?
- Thread starter Dmac
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Skimmer also oxygenated the water and is helpful in that respect. Personally I would run it, you'll probably get more fish with the larger tank anyway.
RonS
Well-Known Member
I agree. I also thought I’ve read that there are things a skimmer can get out that a refugium can’t, but maybe I’m
Remembering that wrong.
I also use Miracle Mud. Those guys recommend only running your skimmer 6 hours/day (assuming you use their product in your fuge). But that’s another option - just run it on a timer at night when your chaeto is asleep
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Isn't the chaeto asleep during the day? The fuge light runs opposite the display lights doesn't it? Or am I doing it wrong? I'm pretty new to this
Fuge lights can run opposite, you’re right.
‘Asleep’ isn’t technically correct, but metaphorically you’re on the right track! However, ‘asleep’ doesn’t mean it’s completely inactive, only that it’s not photosynthesizing in the way it does during the lighted-hours.
And @RonS, you’re right, skimmers do pull stuff that Chaeto doesn’t. Specifically, skimmers remove dissolved and undissolved organics, containing nutrients and other gunk, before those components deteriorate. Meanwhile algaes are going to pull the nutrient components after those organics have decomposed. So they help solve the same Issue (reducing accumulating nitrogen and other nutrients) but by using a different approach. I also highly recommend a skimmer, they’re a valuable piece of equipment that performs multiple jobs.
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I think whatever form of secondary nutrient control one uses, a fuge, an ATS, chaeto reactor, etc, a skimmer is the primary and the two work hand in hand. There's no denying the funk that skimmers remove from our closed systems.
No matter how well we do things, or how big a system is, our systems are not the ocean with an unlimited amount of water. There's a reason that public aquariums use massive skimmers.
Are there times a skimmer can, and sometimes should, be turned off? Yes. If your have a light bioload or are dosing something that you don't want removed too fast it should be turned off for some amount of time. At the same time if your secondary nutrient control is removing too much NO3 & and PO4, let's say working too well, the photo period should be reduced.
Both are tools that can and should be tuned to the system. They are not things that have to run with fixed parameters that have no adjustment.
No matter how well we do things, or how big a system is, our systems are not the ocean with an unlimited amount of water. There's a reason that public aquariums use massive skimmers.
Are there times a skimmer can, and sometimes should, be turned off? Yes. If your have a light bioload or are dosing something that you don't want removed too fast it should be turned off for some amount of time. At the same time if your secondary nutrient control is removing too much NO3 & and PO4, let's say working too well, the photo period should be reduced.
Both are tools that can and should be tuned to the system. They are not things that have to run with fixed parameters that have no adjustment.
RonS
Well-Known Member
Yes - sorry, that was awkward. I was being lazy : )
I meant when the lights are out for your chaeto. Their “night”, when they are less photosynthetically active.
Check out the Miracle Mud folks’ methodology. Even if you don’t use their products, they have a lot of good information published:
Miracle Mud Set-up Instructions | EcoSystem Aquarium
MIRACLE MUD® MIRACLE MUD® is the original mud substrate that is specifically made to be used in an EcoSystem Aquarium® Filter. This special substrate has two main functions: (1) it is an advanced filter medium that also acts as a … Continue reading →
www.ecosystemaquarium.com
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I was just measuring the sump for to for a mud tray.Yes - sorry, that was awkward. I was being lazy : )
I meant when the lights are out for your chaeto. Their “night”, when they are less photosynthetically active.
Check out the Miracle Mud folks’ methodology. Even if you don’t use their products, they have a lot of good information published:
Miracle Mud Set-up Instructions | EcoSystem Aquarium
MIRACLE MUD® MIRACLE MUD® is the original mud substrate that is specifically made to be used in an EcoSystem Aquarium® Filter. This special substrate has two main functions: (1) it is an advanced filter medium that also acts as a … Continue reading →
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No worries. You guys are on the right track. What I was trying to highlight is that they are still biologically active and potentially cleaning your water (depending on how you define ‘cleaning’) during lights-out. So depending on that definition, Chaeto is cleaning 24/7. But they just clean more during the daytime.
Sorry to necrobump but I may have just had a Homer “DOH” moment. I run my fuge light 24/7.. does chaeto absorb more nutrient during light off time or did I read that wrong and am dumb dumb?
Lol... you’re not dumb dumb. These are good questions.
Intuitively, Chaeto should absorb more nutrients when lights are on.
However, this isn’t necessarily the case. Intuition and Basic-Level logic isn’t always true when it comes to science. One would have to check the literature and see if anyone has conducted those experiments yet with Chaeto if you really wanted to be sure.
That said, there can be many other benefits to lights-off periods besides nutrient absorption.
the last three weeks, i have removed the refugium and skimmer... 0 impact on my system 80% of sps.
still have near 0 nitrate/phospate
still have near 0 nitrate/phospate
Out of curiosity though, what are the fish and feeding habits?
Finally, somebody else having this issue.
My phosphates have never been above 0.03. my nitrates got up to about 10 at one point but then went back down to undetectable. It doesn't seem to matter how little or how much I feed. I don't know if all the coral are sucking up the excess nutrients or what . I do still have my Chaeto in the refugium but it hasn't grown in 3 weeks.
Yeah I always had this issue
This hobby is all about balance and your systems are balanced in a better way than most. A nutrient heatsink instead of the common problem of nutrient sink. I'd say this is a wonderful problem you're having because it means you are doing a great job with your husbandry and you can keep more fish or fatten them up a little bit if you want to. Coral growth is also a nutrient export and can be a big one. You're obviously doing very well with your other husbandry and your corals are growing at a good clip, so they will remove quite a bit of nutrients. The more coral biomass you have the more nutrients they are going to remove as they grow. If you want to slow the growth of the coral you can lower the intensity of your lights or decrease the photo period some, just like you would do with a fuge.
The issue will continue to expand exponentially until you remove some biomass, alter you lights or feed more. If you do nothing different the coral will fix the problem for you, when they burn their tips, rtn and start dying.
The good news is it means you can add more fish if you want to. The bad news is you will need to start dosing NO3 & PO4 at some point if you don't increase the number of fish which in turn increases the amount of food fed. I still think running a skimmer is good for the overall health of the system, even if it's only run for a few hours a day or every other day
The issue will continue to expand exponentially until you remove some biomass, alter you lights or feed more. If you do nothing different the coral will fix the problem for you, when they burn their tips, rtn and start dying.
The good news is it means you can add more fish if you want to. The bad news is you will need to start dosing NO3 & PO4 at some point if you don't increase the number of fish which in turn increases the amount of food fed. I still think running a skimmer is good for the overall health of the system, even if it's only run for a few hours a day or every other day
sorry to hijack but can you use miracle mud in a reactor?
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The directions say not to sir it up so I would take that as a no.
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