UV Sterilizer?

[washowi]

Just say "no" to UV......for the life of me, how can I run a beautiful tank for 3 years - not have had any nuisance algea, never had ick, never had anything other than the occasional dead fish and coral like the rest of us..and never ran an mg of UV? Tell me, why do I need it again?

What is wrong with my tank?

refer to http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3132">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3132</a>

Todd

 

[mojo]

Ozone or UV is certainly not required for a successful tank. It does benefit in some instances that I don't think apply to your tank:

- water clarity. I have a 7' long acrylic tank. Without ozone, there's a definite yellowish tint to the tank when looking at it longways. Yes, I could get away with yellowish water, but I like it clear

- ich-prone tangs. My previous Powder Blue tang (RIP!) was very prone to ich. It might have been circumstantial, but before I started ozone, the tang got ich about every month. Since I installed ozone, I never once saw a ich outbreak. I have to conceed that it could have been stress related instead, but it's hard to say for sure.

Todd- I don't think your tanks fall into either of these situations...

 

[washowi]

mojo wrote:

Todd- I don't think your tanks fall into either of these situations...

Chris you are correct, it does not...
So a big tank and Powder Blues would make me consider a UV system?

All salt water has a yellowish tinge to it, Mine does. Look at the water when you do a change...I believe that is the nature of saltwater?

As for ich.....I have no idea why the powders are prone to it? But as in all reef aqauriums...Do what works for you!!

It still is not needed....

 

[vettesarebest]

Washowi, my hawk fish eats anything and everything that can fit in his mouth. I tried puttin shrimp in there and he ate those, I tried putting blue legs in there and almost all of those are gone. I tried putting a blue neon goby in there before and he ate too. I think I am going to stay away from the UV sterilizers and save my money. It seems there are more negatives than positives. Thanks everyone for the good debate and conversation.

 

[broreefr]

mojo wrote: Ozone all the way. Assuming everything else is the same, UV adds a significant amount of heat into the tank.

Ok

A nine watt Sterilizer 200-300 gph up to 120 gal tank

A 18 watt Sterilizer 300-400 gph up to 250 gal tank

A 36 watt Sterilizer 400-600 gph up to 400 gal tank

thats reccommended flow going over and around a bulb How can that much flow in that much water add heat in a system.the exposure to the UV rays are what kills floating Bacteria not heat.

 

[mojo]

Broreefr wrote: How can that much flow in that much water add heat in a system.the exposure to the UV rays are what kills floating Bacteria not heat.

I don't think anyone is saying that the heat kills bacteria. Rather that the energy of the bulb is almost all coverted into heat energy. It'd be the same as adding a 36w heater to your tank and leaving it on 24x7. In the summer, I'm looking to remove anything I can that will keep the heat at a minimum - adding a 36w heater would be the last thing I'd want to do.

 

[broreefr]

I guess the FACT that I run them and have checked temps with and with out them means nothing.

Uncle ~ I give

 

[mojo]

If the UV sterilizer doesn't add any appreciable or detectable heat to your tank, then that's great.

However, turn on that UV bulb underwater and the energy has to go somewhere- into the bacteria, into light, into heat - you simply cannot expect to add energy (electricity) into a system and not expect it to go anywhere.

"Lisa, in this house we follow the Laws of Thermodynamics!" - Homer Simpson

 

[simon_kruger]

Hi Mojo,

I tend to agree with you. I did notice a slight increase in temp while running my 2x36Watt Corallife UV's and infact turned them off in Summer because of it. However I did have them in series and the flow was more like 25 Gallons per hour. Each UV had the turbo twist 12 twist system so contact time was extensive.

 

[mojo]

Flow shouldn't matter in this case. Add a 300w heater in a sump with 10,000gph running through it, and the heat will still be transferred. Again, the energy has to go somewhere.

It should be noted that flow does matter when the heat differential is on the outside of the water (pipes, for example). When you try to heat or cool from a source underwater, the energy must be transferred into the medium. When there's a pipe involved, the energy can go on the other side of the pipe (air), and thus there's an optimum contact time.

 

[kwl1763]

Your one tank "fact" I would say is only a fact that your tank temp didn't change, not that the UV didn't add any heat. It adds heat no question. I don't think it's as efficient as a heater but they are hot. As such that heat gets transferred to the water. Maybe your evaporative cooling was enough to deal with that, maybe your room temp keeps it cool even with the added heat, maybe it wasn't big enough relative to the tank volume to effect you etc, etc, etc. , whatever the case, unless it wasn't working heat was added!

Just because you didn't notice a difference running or not doesn't mean it wasn't the case. Do this for me. Take a 10G tank and hook up a UV to it and see how fast the water gets crazy hot and then come back and tell me they don't add heat. Granted dilute it over 100G and it may not be noticable but it's going on!

 

[kwl1763]

washowi wrote: What is wrong with my tank?

refer to http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3132">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3132</a>

Todd[/QUOTE]

You need to clean the glass :)

Seriously though, I agree, I've never run one on a display, just no need.

I ran ozone for many years but have never hooked it up on this tank and the water is very clear and the ORP is high so again why would I run ozone. I do run carbon 24/7 though.

I keep disease out of my tank by quarentining everything!

 

[broreefr]

pulling the towel back off the floor, I'm in.

Listen, I am a retired Civil Engineer, I am in no way silly enough to think that a uv bulb, flo bulb, or for that matter the friction created by added an electrical charge to a couple magnets to make a pump work, will not not add heat, of course they will.

This forum is to exchange ideas and give advice, now a 36 watt UV is rated for a 400 gal tank at well over 500 gallons per hour flowing over the bulb, this in itself would keep it cool.

To compare 500 gallons per hour flow in a 400 gallon tank to sitting the same bulb in a ten gallon tank is just not giving solid advice.

To tell the club that "they add a lot of heat" or "they add significant heat" is not giving solid advice.

Two 36 watt bulbs running at 25 gph,(should have been close to a 1000) well below what is reccommended and saying you saw a increase in temps ~ yes. If I turn off a heater I will see a decrease. Water is wet, the sky is blue, and if my Aunt had a pair she would be my Uncle. What is the point here?

come on guys do you think there is some little ole man back there screwing these things together without a clue? ALL these company's have top notch designers, testing facilities, and quality control. you honestly believe that all these companies are designing equipment and they have'nt considered heat transfer, that is just one reason for a recommended flow rate, the other reason is for what you desire to control in your systems, algae or other parisites.

You really believe it slipped by billion dollar companies but people who dont even own one have got it all figured out here in our lil world

come on guys :unsure:

 

[kwl1763]

Same heat is transferred no matter what the flow rate. If you have stagnent water and put a heater in it and turn it on the water immediately around the heater will get real hot but water on the other side of the tank would remain unaffected (in the short term, eventually the gradient would cause water movement and the heat would try to equalize). Adding a small amount of flow makes this gradient less noticeable and adding a decent amount of flow spreads it uniformly throughout. Same scenario here, Flow rate would have nothing to do with amount of heat added, only the localization of it.

Remember your fluid dynamics

You are correct the improved flow rate would keep the interface/glass cooler. The problem is that heat didn't disappear. It went into the water! And yes for sure they have guys working on this and if they find a "cooler" solution you can bet they will be the first to tout it. Just like MH lights. They are tremendously hot but until you can throw off that kind of light another way your stuck with them!


"Significant" or "a lot" is always a matter of opinion.

Let's just leave it. It's academic at this point and not adding much. I do appreciate it staying fairly civil.

 

[broreefr]

So the ATL reefclub position to a newbe looking in here for the first time would be; now let me make sure I am right.

A 9 watt UV bulb in 100 gallon tank will "raise the tank temp"

An 18 watt UV bulb in 250 gallon tank will "raise the tank temp"

A 36 watt UV bulb in 400 gallon tank will "raise the tank temp"

and we used words like a lot and significant.

I use UV and the next temp increase I see will be my first.

Do you guys who are so sure about this even use UV?

OK guys now Bear with me~ we are here to exchange ideas and info. Mom always said if you have nothing good to say say nothing at all. Please explain why you good people are sooo sure but have NO data or expierience to back it up

kwl1763 I remember fluid dynamics, I also remeber a little word called Dissipation as well. I don't design sterilizers any more than I do a protein Skimmer. The design is included in the price you pay, that's why diy'ers save so much.

 

[vettesarebest]

I believe the saying "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" comes from Bamby.

 

[broreefr]

I wasnt raised on Bambi (not Bamby btw) I was raised by my mother and I said what my mother said ~ I am going to assume that you mispoke and were not trying to be funny. I hope we can leave it there young man.

 

[vettesarebest]

Okay???

 

[justonemoretank]

I threw in the towel a long time ago. But since the engineer wanted back in maybe I can try and help others to understand.

You do understand that turning on a heater and running 50 or 500 gph by the heater still adds heat to the water right?
OK
Now turn on a 9watt, 18watt, 36watt whatever watt UV or other light bulb and leave it on for 10 hours and grab a hold of it with your bare hand. It is hot as it can be and will probly burn you.
OK
Now dump the bulb in the water or flow the water thru/around it... not hot any more ... I wonder where the heat went? Maybe the water in the tank now has the heat?

The example with the UV sterilizer in the 10gal tank was extreme but it was just simplistic to show a point. It is often easy to understand something when you go thru an example such as a UV sterilizer in a smaller tank.

Anyway... I do not mean to ruffle anyones feathers. You use a UV sterilizer and it works well for you. Somehow it is not raising the temperature of your tank. Great. I cannot explain how that is happening. I would like to be friends with everyone on here so no hard feelings. I never said that it wont work as a sterilizer however the cons outweigh the pros for me and my applications.

Hope everyone has a good evening.
:love:

 

[justonemoretank]

We need a Smilie with a Peace sign or something.
(How do we go about getting that added to the list of Smilie choices?)