What isthe Best sump system for a 29g tank?

[stroid]

Now that I have my sps tank setup I am contemplating setting up a sump for it. The tank is cycled and has coral in it etc...I don't have any experience with sumps and to be honest I am overwhelmed by the though of how to setup a sump system. I have no idea where to start except I have been seeing alot of talk about closed loop systems. Some of my questions are listed below....any suggestions or general discussion would be appreciatted. Thanks in adavance.

1. What items are needed for a sump system?
2. What is the approximate cost of a system like this?
3. What is the true advantage of having a sump?
4. Who is willing to help me :thumbs: ?

 

[frewl]

well as big as a sump that you have the room for is the short answer.

1. Drilled hole and bulkhead or overflow box. Tubing of some sort. the "sump". you can use many things for sumps other tanks, customs sumps, rubbermaid trashcans, salt buckets. Pretty much anything that will hold water. depending on want you want to do with the sump and your space requirement/limitations. This is a gross over simplification but it gives you an idea.

2. The cost will vary greatly on what you decide to use for your sump.

3. The added water volume helps keep everything more stable, and you have a place to hide all of your equipment. for example heaters skimmers.

4. I can point out some links and help you find the materials but then physically I'm in Dalton so that limits me.

 

[maveri9720]

Well, I'm bored here at work, so I will try to answer as much as I can.

The main advantage for sumps is twofold:

1. More water volume in your system. More water volume makes for a more stable system, that can withstand fluctuations longer than one who has less volume.

2. A place to hide equipment. You can store your heater, skimmer, refugium and pumps in a sump, so it is not in the main display tank.

What's needed for a sump is an open-ended question. You only really need a sump and a return pump. But you can also add all that is in #2 above to it, if you want to.

System costs vary greatly, depending on what road you care to go down. Myself, I had mine custom built at MRC and it cost me just under $300 for a 36" x 16" x 18", or something along those lines, b/c I can't remember the exact dimensions.

But you can go the cheaper route and make your own out of a cheap, small glass tank from Wal-mart or similar and make your own customizing to it.

I would think it would go back to the above #2 as to how elaborate your sump needs to be, based off of what you are actually going to put into it.

In mine, I have a chamber for my skimmer, than 3 baffles to reduce microbubbles, then the last chamber is the return chamber. I have my skimmer in the first chamber and my heater and auto top-off switches in the last and I have my skimmer pump connected to the first chamber and my return connected to the last one. My PH probe is in between one of the baffles.

I would love to help, but I have discovered a huge prob with my tank and will have my hands full for awhile.

Hopefully, someone else will be able to help out more than I have.

Good Luck.

 

[stroid]

I think i can fit a 10 or 15g tank inside of the stand i will just have to move the ballast for my halides..i was gonna just buy a cheap tank from petsmart or something. My tank is not drilled so that is not an option and I dont want to drill it not for a 29g tank if it was bigger i would drill it. I would like to have all my equipment within the sump if possible. I would also like to grow some chaeto and put some LR in the sump for filtration etc.... I would like to eliminate the powerheads in my tank if possible i had a bad incident with an anemone several months ago and i am not going to let that happen to my GBTA. Can a decent sump be done under $100?

 

[maveri9720]

Are you planning on putting a skimmer in the sump? I am assuming not. If it's just a heater and a return pump, you should be fine. You should have some room to set-up a small fuge down there, but not alot. Depends if you want to have your return pump run internal to the sump or external. Externally will give you more room and less heat dissipated into the water.

And then on your return pump, just buy bigger than what you need and then "Y" off of the main line and then you can have two return lines in your tank, acting as powerheads.

 

[stroid]

I would like to put the skimmer in the sump but I realize it will be a tight squeeze. Right now i have a CPR BakPak which i think works great but I really didnt want to hang anything on the tank. Will I have to buy a tank with multiple compartments? Or will a standard tank work

 

[glxtrix]

you can add compartments in yourself, jsut silicone glass sheets in, you could do acrylic too but generally the hold with silicone on acrylic to glass isnt the best, but it can be done. If space permits, you could just put the skimmer you have on the back of the sump, or even rest it inside and use longer tubing to connect the PH to the skimmer; that is if you dont want to change skimmers.

 

[maveri9720]

A standard tank will work, you can just silicone in baffles to the tank and where you want to make compartments.

I don't think you would have room to put a skimmer, a decent refuge and proper baffles together in a tank that small, even running external pumps for the skimmer and return. I could be wrong, b/c I don't have any experience with the small sized tanks, but that's my opinion.

If the hang-on works well for you, then why switch? Then that would free up more room in the sump for a nice refuge, baffles and places for other equipment. Also, eliminating the need to buy a new skimmer and pump to run it.

Just my .02

 

[stroid]

i dont mind changing skimmers if it was not to expensivei dont mind running the skimmer in the tank since i am limited with space but it would be nice to run it on the inside of the sump. all the pumps i have found seem to be for much bigger tanks any suggestions on what size pump?

 

[maveri9720]

I would probably go with a Mag pump, as to what size, I have no clue and would have to default to someone with more experience than myself.

 

[reeferdawg]

I've been talking with Stroid about this and told him I'd help him this weekend (blind leading the blind, I suppose). My main question is relative to how much flow you want through the sump. How much turnover should he shoot for when sizing the pump? Four turnovers per hour or so?

 

[frewl]

how far is the top of the tank from where the sump is going to be. if you aren't drilling you will need a siphon overflow. Sam sells the mags and a siphon over flow at Aquabuys. But then there are some guys that have them on the boards I know tony has a one CPR I think and was throwing in extra sponges and an Aqualifter which is a necessary for that siphon overflow. I will tell you that its going to be a tight fit trying to do everything into a 10. I got the partitions and all in there but it took a bit of work.

I would suggest Lowes for your glass partitions. They are fairly inexspensive. If you are lucky you can get them from scrap that has been left over from that day and usually they will cut you a deal well they did at mine.


As for silicone I would get that at Lowes also they have Aquarium specific silicone in 5 ounce tubes for 3-4 bucks. Dap is the brand I do believe. But you can get GE silicone 1 there as well its a 10 oz tube for 3.50 but you need a caulking gun for it. I would go this route since its a pain to squeeze the tubes and a caulking gun will give you more consistent silicon bead.

Note that you need to leave it to dry for 24 hours then you can wet test it but then you need to wait another 24 before you plumb it in/on your tank.

 

[kappaknight]

Stroid;31522 wrote: I would like to eliminate the powerheads in my tank if possible i had a bad incident with an anemone several months ago and i am not going to let that happen to my GBTA.

A sump is not going to help you fix this problem. If you want to grow SPS, you will need lots of light and lots of flow. Depending on which mag pump you get, you may get decent flow... but if you put too much flow through the sump, you will get tons of air bubbles from the skimmer's output.

Other options to increase flow are:

1. Tunze nano streams (cheapest and easiest - also the way they are designed, anemone's shouldn't have a problem)

2. Closed loop systems - a bit more elaborate and more expensive to setup... drilling will probably be required.


Honestly, I would try to keep the system simple since it's only a 29 gallon tank. My old 29g consisted of live rocks, a CPR HOB fuge (medium size), 2 Seio 620's or 820's and a Remora skimmer. The two items fit perfectly in the back of the 29g and the two Seio's gave it pretty good flow. This was however, before the nano streams were released.

My small and simple system ran fine... and things thrived.

 

[stroid]

yeah i realize that for such a small tank it really isnt necesarrly required but I was thinking that it would help make water changes easier and i can keep the tank topped off alot easier and there will be more filtration. If I can do it for relativly little cost I think it would be worth it.

 

[frewl]

I see it this way for a small tank it is necessary. it makes things much simplier since you can see how much evaporation is happening. it add the volume and surface area. Oh are you going to need any cheato I don't' have much right now but I'm trying to grow more. well you really don't have to try.

 

[cgill311]

I've got a 30 Gallon Oceanic cube right now, so my stuff my be a starting point for comparison.

Tank specs:

250 10K metal halide
15 gallon custom home-built acrylic sump (3 chambers)
Mag 9.5 return pump (this is almost too much. Try a Mag 7)
Hydor rotating output T'd to a SWCD return (3 outlets total)
LifeReef overflow box (rated 700 GPH)
AquaC Urchin skimmer with Maxijet 1200 pump
Chaeto fuge with 27W 6500K PC bulb
See this link for more details:
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1674">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1674</a>

Good luck keeping all that under $100. My suggestions for keeping the $$$ down:

1) Keep the same skimmer. Try hanging it on the back of the sump if possible to keep it out of view. If not, hang on the tank...no big deal.
2) Use the biggest size standard glass tank that will fit into your stand (probably a 10 or 15 gallon tank, like you said)
3) Get some scrap glass from ARC members to make baffles in your sump
4) You can get free chaeto from lots of people. I have some now if you want.
5) Try to find slightly used overflow box and return pump. Post a "Want to buy" thread on the ARC forums. Someone will have a Mag pump and overflow laying around.
6) Buy a power compact desk lamp from Home Depot for $20 to use the light. Some modding definitely necessary. That's what I did and it works great.

I'd be happy to help you. Shoot me a PM if interested.

 

[stroid]

oh the confusion of SW tanks lol...I have a limited budget or atleast i try to limit it in this hobby because I swear I spend all my extra money on this stuff. I will take measurements when i get home and I will post. Does anyone know the answer to Reeferdawg's question above I think this will help determine the flow needed.

 

[cgill311]

kappaknight;31562 wrote: If you want to grow SPS, you will need lots of light and lots of flow. Depending on which mag pump you get, you may get decent flow... but if you put too much flow through the sump, you will get tons of air bubbles from the skimmer's output.

With some strategically designed baffles and chaeto (also a great bubble trap) you can eliminate micro-bubbles from getting back into your main tank. I'm pushing 600-700 GPH through a 15 gallon sump with an AquaC Urchin skimmer, and I have no bubble problems.

 

[frewl]

You might want to keep it on the low end so you have more contact time with your skimmer. What is the flow rating of the skimmer?

 

[stroid]

honestly im not sure of the flow rate i tried finding out but all i saw was descriptions of the skimmer and it says it good for up to a 60g tank. That probably doesnt help but thats what i know about that.