- Messages
- 116
- Reaction score
- 0
ya its pretty dirty
what the hell!!! help fast!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter motoman32002
- Start date
Your panther will eat anything it can fit in it's mouth as it grows. Personally, I would remove him before you set up your 210 gallon. They are not reef safe, IMO, at least to other smaller reef safe fish. I don'tt think they eat corals, but I bet they'd prey on any crabs, shrimp, etc as well as smaller fish.
I'm not a meds expert, but I would also look at your tank maintenance practices. Regular water changes, amount of feeding. cleaning filter socks, etc. Excess ammonia can be due to too much food and overstocking. Lightly stocked tanks are usually just plain healthier and less disease prone, regardless of whether it is reef, saltwater only, freshwater, etc.
I'm not a meds expert, but I would also look at your tank maintenance practices. Regular water changes, amount of feeding. cleaning filter socks, etc. Excess ammonia can be due to too much food and overstocking. Lightly stocked tanks are usually just plain healthier and less disease prone, regardless of whether it is reef, saltwater only, freshwater, etc.
- Messages
- 5,121
- Reaction score
- 7
So how many fish are left and what are their status?
By the way one of the main purpose of this club and forum is to help one another through these type of situations. Some have made the comment for you to find a Reputable lfs and deal with them for guidance well first of all I doubt there are many if any saltwater fish stores in Eatonton GA.. If you need help post away and ignore the rude and condescending post by some. Please keep us updated
By the way one of the main purpose of this club and forum is to help one another through these type of situations. Some have made the comment for you to find a Reputable lfs and deal with them for guidance well first of all I doubt there are many if any saltwater fish stores in Eatonton GA.. If you need help post away and ignore the rude and condescending post by some. Please keep us updated
Yet again apparently you are unable to read thoroughy.....I said mixing about half a gallon of fresh and half a gallon of salt would give home a lower salinity of about 1.020-1.022.....dipping the fish (basically acclimating).....after the treatment in the QT tank would help get any residual meds out of the fishes system......and btw I said hypo salinity as in lower salinity then I told him a lower salinity to have the water at.....hyposalinity is NOT necessarily 1.010-1.012.....considering that's it's simply a lower than normal salinity.....sorry I have a biology degree....I don't have to look things up.....get off the pedestal.....
dawgdude,
Go back and re-read. The OP stated that he had .25 ammonia in the QT not the DT. Just a for clarifications. I just read to learn about issues and how to deal with them and do not take sides when confrontational issues arise. But I did feel there was a need to clarify the misunderstanding concerning the presence of ammonia.
Go back and re-read. The OP stated that he had .25 ammonia in the QT not the DT. Just a for clarifications. I just read to learn about issues and how to deal with them and do not take sides when confrontational issues arise. But I did feel there was a need to clarify the misunderstanding concerning the presence of ammonia.
- Messages
- 116
- Reaction score
- 0
ya thanks there is 0 ammonia in the tank that there all in now and it is always 0 the qt tank is the one with ammonia
- Messages
- 5,121
- Reaction score
- 7
how are they doing right now?
- Messages
- 116
- Reaction score
- 0
male is lathargic femal is swimming around i need formalin 3 asap does anybody have ne at home no lfs has it
I just got off the phone with Motoman, he called me for some advice. I saw this thread earlier today but I refrained from posting because there was already so much (sometimes conflicting) advice I didn't want to add to the confusion.
Having said that, I told him I'd post my thoughts here in case he needs to refer to them again.
IMO he's dealing with a number of issues, so I'm going to address them in priority order.
1) Brooklynella. While this is sometimes referred to as "clownfish disease", any fish can get it, and many fish can carry it without showing symptoms (and then transmit it to others). Clowns are the most vulnerable to Brooklynella than other species.
2) Internal parasites. The stringy feces is certainly an indicator of that.
Motoman also mentioned that his grouper and tang are also starting to look distressed - scratching and color faded. There may or may not be something else going on.
Since Brooklynella can kill within hours, that is the first order of business to deal with. He's been unable to find Formalin 3 anywhere near him. He does have some Quick Cure which contains Formalin and Malachite Green, so in a pinch, that's what he's going to use in a 10-gallon bare-bottomed quarantine tank. He has a couple of extra tanks, so I suggested setting one up with 50% water from his DT, and 50% new water (to ease the parameter shift). I also suggested he needs some sort of biological media that is established, such as a sponge from the DT (or other bio-media) OR a "sacrificial" small piece of live rock (cured) to introduce denitrifying bacteria to the tank and help maintain water quality. This will NEVER be put in the display tank. Of course he'll also need water movement so aerator or powerhead or HOB filter with no carbon - he can decide what he can put together from what he has or has access to.
I also suggested treating the tang and grouper in a separate tank using the same method. In our first conversation he hadn't observed symptoms in them, but all fish can be carriers, so treatment is also indicated. Since then we've spoken twice more and he mentioned symptoms - I'd still treat them in a different tank since the symptoms aren't so advanced, and a 10g quarantine would be very crowded. I believe he also has a 20 at his disposal for those.
Assuming they get through treatment, *then* the internal parasite issue can be addressed if it's still present. This is something that needs to be dealt with, but since mixing medicines is contraindicated, he's going to have to tackle one issue at a time. Internal parasites are problematic in the long term, but in the short term the Brook is the most urgent matter to be dealt with. If the fish get through the Quick Cure treatment, then in new water (free of other medication, and after a few days' "rest" from medication) he can address the internal parasites either with Metronidazole & Focus OR PraziPro - both are suitable for deworming.
He mentioned he was on his way to the LFS for some Prime (for the other QT that has ammonia that won't be used for this treatment) - I also suggested he get Stability to help with the water quality in (all) the tank(s). I also suggested he see if they have Seachem Paraguard to use instead of the Quick Cure if they have it. It's not my preferred medicine against Brook (Formalin 3 is), but it is supposed to be effective. So whichever he ends up with will be better than doing nothing.
Having said all that, we also discussed fish choices for a 33 reef. I would not have suggested a boxfish, which perished a couple of months ago (bought the day he moved the tank). Boxfish aren't reef safe and they pose other risks too, which were mentioned earlier in this thread.
The grouper is also not a suitable reef tank choice, particularly for such a small tank. He may be small now, but they grow quickly, to about 30" (I had one that was about 18-20" in our 1000g when we had it).
The blue tang is also not a suitable choice for such a small tank. This fish came with the tank but it does need a larger home. It is reef safe, but needs much more swimming/grazing room.
And finally, 3 clowns - also not recommended. He mentioned there was one mated pair and another individual. In my experience a pair will harass a "third wheel" right to death. One pair per tank. Even if he moves them to the 210, there may still be territory issues. Best to pick the pair OR the individual and not both. And of course eventually the grouper will be large enough to make them into hors d'oeuvres.
Hopefully he gets his QT sorted and treatment started before it's too late. Brooklynella can move very quickly, but for his sake, I hope he gets treatment going in time.
Jenn
Having said that, I told him I'd post my thoughts here in case he needs to refer to them again.
IMO he's dealing with a number of issues, so I'm going to address them in priority order.
1) Brooklynella. While this is sometimes referred to as "clownfish disease", any fish can get it, and many fish can carry it without showing symptoms (and then transmit it to others). Clowns are the most vulnerable to Brooklynella than other species.
2) Internal parasites. The stringy feces is certainly an indicator of that.
Motoman also mentioned that his grouper and tang are also starting to look distressed - scratching and color faded. There may or may not be something else going on.
Since Brooklynella can kill within hours, that is the first order of business to deal with. He's been unable to find Formalin 3 anywhere near him. He does have some Quick Cure which contains Formalin and Malachite Green, so in a pinch, that's what he's going to use in a 10-gallon bare-bottomed quarantine tank. He has a couple of extra tanks, so I suggested setting one up with 50% water from his DT, and 50% new water (to ease the parameter shift). I also suggested he needs some sort of biological media that is established, such as a sponge from the DT (or other bio-media) OR a "sacrificial" small piece of live rock (cured) to introduce denitrifying bacteria to the tank and help maintain water quality. This will NEVER be put in the display tank. Of course he'll also need water movement so aerator or powerhead or HOB filter with no carbon - he can decide what he can put together from what he has or has access to.
I also suggested treating the tang and grouper in a separate tank using the same method. In our first conversation he hadn't observed symptoms in them, but all fish can be carriers, so treatment is also indicated. Since then we've spoken twice more and he mentioned symptoms - I'd still treat them in a different tank since the symptoms aren't so advanced, and a 10g quarantine would be very crowded. I believe he also has a 20 at his disposal for those.
Assuming they get through treatment, *then* the internal parasite issue can be addressed if it's still present. This is something that needs to be dealt with, but since mixing medicines is contraindicated, he's going to have to tackle one issue at a time. Internal parasites are problematic in the long term, but in the short term the Brook is the most urgent matter to be dealt with. If the fish get through the Quick Cure treatment, then in new water (free of other medication, and after a few days' "rest" from medication) he can address the internal parasites either with Metronidazole & Focus OR PraziPro - both are suitable for deworming.
He mentioned he was on his way to the LFS for some Prime (for the other QT that has ammonia that won't be used for this treatment) - I also suggested he get Stability to help with the water quality in (all) the tank(s). I also suggested he see if they have Seachem Paraguard to use instead of the Quick Cure if they have it. It's not my preferred medicine against Brook (Formalin 3 is), but it is supposed to be effective. So whichever he ends up with will be better than doing nothing.
Having said all that, we also discussed fish choices for a 33 reef. I would not have suggested a boxfish, which perished a couple of months ago (bought the day he moved the tank). Boxfish aren't reef safe and they pose other risks too, which were mentioned earlier in this thread.
The grouper is also not a suitable reef tank choice, particularly for such a small tank. He may be small now, but they grow quickly, to about 30" (I had one that was about 18-20" in our 1000g when we had it).
The blue tang is also not a suitable choice for such a small tank. This fish came with the tank but it does need a larger home. It is reef safe, but needs much more swimming/grazing room.
And finally, 3 clowns - also not recommended. He mentioned there was one mated pair and another individual. In my experience a pair will harass a "third wheel" right to death. One pair per tank. Even if he moves them to the 210, there may still be territory issues. Best to pick the pair OR the individual and not both. And of course eventually the grouper will be large enough to make them into hors d'oeuvres.
Hopefully he gets his QT sorted and treatment started before it's too late. Brooklynella can move very quickly, but for his sake, I hope he gets treatment going in time.
Jenn
- Messages
- 5,121
- Reaction score
- 7
Awesome Jenn!
Well don't thank me yet. Odds are a bit long. To do *nothing* will surely result in death, but by the time the heavy breathing starts and they go off their food, it's a crap shoot as to whether it's too late or not. IMO where there's life, there's hope (to a point). IMO it's worth at least trying to treat them, but when asked if this *will* fix things, I can't predict. A lot depends on the fish and how it reacts to the stresses of treatment, and how much damage may have already been done.
There is also a risk of infection too, in the lesions left from the protozoan feeding on the fish.
Still - it's worth doing something. And even if one or more perishes, it's worth treating the others (ie grouper/tang) because if they are carriers, they can transmit the stuff to new fishes introduced to the system down the road. I've seen that happen - regular "Typhoid Mary" - a benign looking watchman goby in my instance. He never showed a symptom but the problem kept recurring until I treated him too. Live and learn - the hard way.
Jenn
There is also a risk of infection too, in the lesions left from the protozoan feeding on the fish.
Still - it's worth doing something. And even if one or more perishes, it's worth treating the others (ie grouper/tang) because if they are carriers, they can transmit the stuff to new fishes introduced to the system down the road. I've seen that happen - regular "Typhoid Mary" - a benign looking watchman goby in my instance. He never showed a symptom but the problem kept recurring until I treated him too. Live and learn - the hard way.
Jenn
Agreed. That was my point about 'system related' issues in prior post above. The 'vector' syndrome.
I have seen the case (as I'm sure you have to) where the 'operation/cure was a success, but the patient died anyway'.
I hope that doesn't happen here.
I have seen the case (as I'm sure you have to) where the 'operation/cure was a success, but the patient died anyway'.
I hope that doesn't happen here.
He called me again a few minutes ago from his LFS (!!) - they weren't helpful to him 
I helped him pick up a few bits and pieces, so hopefully he'll get his treatment set up soon.
He said he had to come into civilization *g* tonight - so I told him to call my Google Voice number - it will find me wherever I am - if he needs some more stuff I can meet him at the shop, so that's an option too. Time is of the essence however, so I think he's going to have to go with the Quick Cure for now. Better to start *something* asap than wait more hours for more damage to be done.
Jenn
I helped him pick up a few bits and pieces, so hopefully he'll get his treatment set up soon.He said he had to come into civilization *g* tonight - so I told him to call my Google Voice number - it will find me wherever I am - if he needs some more stuff I can meet him at the shop, so that's an option too. Time is of the essence however, so I think he's going to have to go with the Quick Cure for now. Better to start *something* asap than wait more hours for more damage to be done.
Jenn
- Messages
- 5,121
- Reaction score
- 7
I have a 55 gallon quarantine/hospital tank set up if you think they would survive the trip you are welcome to use it . I am about 2 hours from you in Dallas GA. The tank is fully established and running 24/7.
- Messages
- 116
- Reaction score
- 0
back from the store fixing up the qt tank
Thank you Jenn for posting the information concerning your discussions with motoman, this information can be useful to others including myself. I like to read about these issues and learn possible solutions. I figure if I learn now, then I can be better prepared to deal with an issue when (not if) one arises.