Who Vacuums Their Tanks During Regular Water Changes?

[brianjfinn]

Dakota9;491794 wrote: I never meant to say that people were upgrading to keep their nitrates in check, only meant that it takes much, much longer for nitrates to build up than other detrimental parameters (ammonia, NO2).

I see many people upgrading or changing their system dramatically 2 or 3 times a year. This alone would keep the nitrates in check on a otherwise chemically balanced tank.

Check out the graph, hopefully it's there

You can see the prolonged amount of time it takes nitrates to build to anything that would amount to trouble for your tank. Idf the tank is being re-done every 5 to 6 months or so, that in it'self would keep the nitrates in check.

Of course Nitrates take longer to build up than ammonia and nitrite, because Nitrate is the third part of the Nitrogen Cycle, after ammonia and after nitrite. To say that it takes "much, much longer" for nitrate to build up than ammonia and nitrite is misleading. In a properly established system, there will not be any ammonia or nitrite building up. If these two are present, there are other more serious problems. Also, from what I've read, nitrates do suspend in the water column, while the source of the nitrates will settle into the substrate. If they weren't suspended, nitrate would not be an issue for our corals or fish unless the substrate was disturbed.

It also seems that you are implying that nitrates take a very long time to accumulate to an unhealthy level in any system. This completely depends on the husbandry: amount of feeding, macro algae, nitrate removing media, water changes, etc. Besides, what is "unhealthy" many times depends on the inhabitants. Some corals like "dirtier" water while others require a pristine system.

 

[drnecropolis]

No doubt..

 

[dakota9]

brianjfinn;491819 wrote: Of course Nitrates take longer to build up than ammonia and nitrite, because Nitrate is the third part of the Nitrogen Cycle, after ammonia and after nitrite. To say that it takes "much, much longer" for nitrate to build up than ammonia and nitrite is misleading. In a properly established system, there will not be any ammonia or nitrite building up. If these two are present, there are other more serious problems. Also, from what I've read, nitrates do suspend in the water column, while the source of the nitrates will settle into the substrate. If they weren't suspended, nitrate would not be an issue for our corals or fish unless the substrate was disturbed.

It also seems that you are implying that nitrates take a very long time to accumulate to an unhealthy level in any system. This completely depends on the husbandry: amount of feeding, macro algae, nitrate removing media, water changes, etc. Besides, what is "unhealthy" many times depends on the inhabitants. Some corals like "dirtier" water while others require a pristine system.

Well, if you're looking for an argument for argument's sake, then yes, I would agree with your views completely.

You seem to be splitting hairs Brian, was it my use of the word much </em>that disagreed with you, or that I used it twice? Compared to the short order that ammonia and nitrite builds and then subsides, yes, it takes nitrate "a very long time" (and very high levels) to become toxic.

If nitrates were only suspended in the water column, then vacuuming to remove high nitrate issues wouldn't have the great success it does over just merely siphoning water from the top of the tank, as that seems to do very little to bring down nitrates. I suppose one could liken the nitrate issues in the substrate as "the nitrate factory" with the by-product free floating in the water column, but again, that's kinda splitting hairs.

 

[dwhatley]

Eheim makes a battery powered one that is supposed to work well. Basically it's just a filter that you hold down in the substrate, it don't cyphon the water out, just filters the gunk....never used one, just know they exist.

I've owned two. There is a small circuit chip in the top the invariably gets wet and kills the thing (even with a condom cover but this extends the life). They work better than anything else I have tried but it is still a slow process and a stronger pump is desirable. They are extremely expensive for the longevity.

 

[jeffmuse]

mysterybox;491634 wrote: I change out some sand on a regular basis with a fish net. Vacuuming is not a good idea in a reef rank. However, if you take a hose and suction just the surface in a water change, u are ok. Don't disturb the sand bed too much though.

+ 1 I seldom vacuum the sand bed when changing out the water. One of my problems is that there is so much LR in my setup that there really is not a whole lot of surface area to vacuum as it is :confused2:

 

[corigan]

No Vacumming here except in the overflow and sump every once in awhile. I keep nitrates down with water changes, fuge, skimmers, and purigen and my nitrates stay right around 1. Tank has been up for almost 3 years with a high bioload.

 

[jeffh]

I run barebottom (seems like a dirty name within ARC). I find the muck tends to find calm areas on the bottom and piles up. Every few water changes I'll vaccum it out. Does it keep nitrates lower....I think it does....are there other ways of keeping nitrates lower....:yes:

JMHO

Jeff

 

[brianjfinn]

Dakota9;491942 wrote: Well, if you're looking for an argument for argument's sake, then yes, I would agree with your views completely.

Not arguing just for arguments sake, I just think this is an important issue that should not be downplayed for the sake of those that are new to the hobby.

Dakota9;491942 wrote: You seem to be splitting hairs Brian, was it my use of the word much </em>that disagreed with you, or that I used it twice? Compared to the short order that ammonia and nitrite builds and then subsides, yes, it takes nitrate "a very long time" (and very high levels) to become toxic.

If nitrates were only suspended in the water column, then vacuuming to remove high nitrate issues wouldn't have the great success it does over just merely siphoning water from the top of the tank, as that seems to do very little to bring down nitrates. I suppose one could liken the nitrate issues in the substrate as "the nitrate factory" with the by-product free floating in the water column, but again, that's kinda splitting hairs.

You're right, I should have been more clear, even though I never said nitrates do not build up in the substrate. That was your inference. Again, I would disagree with you that it takes "a very long time" for nitrates to build up to toxic levels, but since that statement is purely subjective and not quantitative, then we will only ever disagree until we start arguing the facts of how long it actually takes for nitrate to build up and at what point it becomes toxic.

I think you were frustrated with my reply, and I apologize for that. It was not meant as an attack. I just want to make sure this subject is not downplayed for the sake of those that are new to the hobby. I think we both can agree on that and the fact that nitrates are an issue that needs to be controlled (among many others) in order to have success in the hobby.

 

[dakota9]

brianjfinn;492192 wrote: Not arguing just for arguments sake, I just think this is an important issue that should not be downplayed for the sake of those that are new to the hobby.



You're right, I should have been more clear, even though I never said nitrates do not build up in the substrate. That was your inference. Again, I would disagree with you that it takes "a very long time" for nitrates to build up to toxic levels, but since that statement is purely subjective and not quantitative, then we will only ever disagree until we start arguing the facts of how long it actually takes for nitrate to build up and at what point it becomes toxic.

I think you were frustrated with my reply, and I apologize for that. It was not meant as an attack. I just want to make sure this subject is not downplayed for the sake of those that are new to the hobby. I think we both can agree on that and the fact that nitrates are an issue that needs to be controlled (among many others) in order to have success in the hobby.

Wow, sorry Brian if I came off that way, as I was not frustrated, nor felt attacked. I've gotten that from other people before though, so it must be the manor in which I write. Too bad spell check doesn't pop up a lil red line under a sentance, and when you right click on the line, the lil pop up read "This sounds a little pissy......" LOL

I'll read your whole response later when I get home, I'm still at the office.....

Later

 

[brianjfinn]

Dakota9;492271 wrote: Wow, sorry Brian if I came off that way, as I was not frustrated, nor felt attacked. I've gotten that from other people before though, so it must be the manor in which I write. Too bad spell check doesn't pop up a lil red line under a sentance, and when you right click on the line, the lil pop up read "This sounds a little pissy......" LOL

I'll read your whole response later when I get home, I'm still at the office.....

Later

No prob! Just wanted to make sure. It's difficult to communicate emotion through text, and so many times things are misread. Obviously, I'm guilty of that.

 

[toeside]

I siphon the bottom of my sump weekly. It's how I pull water out to replace with fresh mix. Nothing special, just guide the hose back and forth over the sediment. I try to avoid stirring it up and thereby sending it to the display.

I vacuum the DT sand bed, but much less these days... it's just not as "dirty". When vacuuming the sand, I try to avoid releasing big clouds of particulate.

I also vacuum the sediment from the surface of my rock. Not surprisingly, junk seems to pile up in low spots and crevices.

 

[dakota9]

I like to blast my rock with a turkey baster once a week or so. Amazing how much crude accumulates on the rock itself.

 

[mph84]

I vac what i can get to easily i figure why not get out the easy stuff

 

[acroholic]

Alright, who just bumped this thread by voting in this ancient poll?

 

[siren's eye]

I kind of stir the sand up before a water change, pack the filter full of floss, then change it once the water's clear.

 

[jef4y]

LOL since it's bumped I voted...

I vacuum the top 1" or so of my 3-4" sandbed every 3 weeks when I change water. I pull out 15G in my water change. The first 5 I pull out vacuuming whatever sand I can get to. The rest I just pull out water.

I have critters in my sand (who are greatly displeased at getting siphoned up), but still pull out a lot of poop when I vacuum that top bit.

 

[superclown]

Im assuming you guys are using like a shop vac to get this done...

 

[jef4y]

You're joking right?

 

[laura]

Sorry, I just voted too, then realized most of the posts are from April.

 

[ralph atl]

Laura;582213 wrote: Sorry, I just voted too, then realized most of the posts are from April.

no soup for you!