Will This Work?

[jgoal55]

So I am thinking about how to add a fuge to my set up since the skimmer I went with took up my whole sump. I have a nice area to put my old 30 long in and I'd love to have it as a display fuge. So I thought up this little design and I have no idea if it'll even work. And if it does work, what size pump would I need? Which brings me back to my last forum post; which sufficient pump would be quietest? If the ones mentioned in that thread are sufficient then no worries.

The other thing that worries me a bit about this design is that I am not sure if gravity alone will take the water overflowing from the fuge all the way back to the Sump??? Any thoughts....suggestions on making this easier?
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[budsreef]

Is there a reason you can't keep the overflow from the refugium above the sump? I'd be worried that if you temporarily lost power and then the pump restarted you could get an air lock in the overflow.

 

[gwhiz]

It'll work just fine. As long as the output end of the return line is lower than the input end, it'll flow--water always seeks level. I have a similar set up with my frag tank--I'm running it with a Quiet One 1200 (1/2" pvc input, 3/4" drain) and I had to throttle it back just a bit. I also have a korallia in the frag tank for flow.

The size of the pump you need will depend on the size of the drain line...

I also put the Q1 pump on the same switch as the return pump for the display tank. Otherwise, the frag tank level would rise whenever the main return pump was shut off (for feeding, etc.) and the level of the sump rose.

 

[seedless reefer]

Looks like it will work.

Just make sure that you leave enough room at the top of your sump to keep it from overflowing onto the floor incase of power/pump loss.

Don't forget siphon breaks.

 

[lilrobb]

Jorge,

you rock - that's exactly what I planned for my setup... LOL
I figured it'll work, but I'm gonna go with two pumps...

Robb

 

[ralph atl]

looks good to me!

 

[flyingarmy]

Looks great Jorge...exactly how I had mine set up. Too bad you aren't close, I have a fuge that I would pass on to you already running full force!

 

[derek_s]

Mine is set up that way as well.

 

[jgoal55]

Budsreef;287923 wrote: Is there a reason you can't keep the overflow from the refugium above the sump?

The main reason is that this is in my family room so I dont want the plumbing to be very obvious. So to avoid that, I'd like to run along the floor then back up to the sump as in the picture.

Gwhiz;287937 wrote: It'll work just fine. As long as the output end of the return line is lower than the input end

Can you explain this part a little more, not sure what you mean here.

LilRobb;287942 wrote: Jorge,

you rock - that's exactly what I planned for my setup... LOL
I figured it'll work, but I'm gonna go with two pumps...

lol. thanks. Glad I could help. As for the two pumps, you're basically just going to use a whole separate pump just for the Fuge set up? Thats not a bad idea, I may consider that. It might be better noise wise, to use two smaller pumps than 1 huge one.

flyingarmy;287961 wrote: Looks great Jorge...exactly how I had mine set up. Too bad you aren't close, I have a fuge that I would pass on to you already running full force!

'

haha. That would of been awesome! Although I only would have held onto it until you were back

-------

On another note, as for the size of my plumbing, my main display overflow is 1" - My return line is 3/4" - I was thinking of doing everything else at 3/4" as well.

With the mock up I drew here my other question is this, the red return "from fuge to sump," that has to drop the water back into the sump right? not connected to the main display return line?

 

[gwhiz]

Jgoal55;288085 wrote: Can you explain this part a little more, not sure what you mean here.

Just that you don't need to be concerned about the 12" rise up to the sump 'cause the drain from the tank is higher and will push the water back up into the sump.

 

[gwhiz]

Jgoal55;288085 wrote: With the mock up I drew here my other question is this, the red return "from fuge to sump," that has to drop the water back into the sump right? not connected to the main display return line?

Correct.

 

[george]

I would raise the parts on the floor to above the lip of the sump. Otherwise you'll start collecting detritus in the elbows and low parts that may eventually cause clogs.

Plus, the return line will cause increased back pressure which will force you to turn the return to the tank way down in order to force water to the fuge.

In a perfect, conservation of momentum/energy world it wouldn't matter, but in the real world we have friction and debris.

 

[gwhiz]

Jgoal55;288085 wrote: lol. thanks. Glad I could help. As for the two pumps, you're basically just going to use a whole separate pump just for the Fuge set up? Thats not a bad idea, I may consider that. It might be better noise wise, to use two smaller pumps than 1 huge one.

This is what I do as well...basically 'cause I was too lazy to replumb the display tank when I added the frag tank. It was easier to drop in another pump. I have a Mag 18 return and a Quiet One 1200 feeding the frag tank. IF YOU DO THIS, be careful with running the fuge pump when the main return pump is shut down. In my setup, with everything running the frag tank stays at a constant level. With the return pump shut down, the level of the sump rises, reducing the head pressure on the frag pump and it starts to gain on the drain and would eventually flood. I wired the frag feed pump to the same switch as the return pump so that if I kill the return, the frag pump also shuts down. Just make sure there's enough room in your sump for the extra water when both pumps are off.

 

[jgoal55]

Gwhiz;288092 wrote: Just that you don't need to be concerned about the 12" rise up to the sump 'cause the drain from the tank is higher and will push the water back up into the sump.

ok awesome, that was going to be my next question. Thats incredible to me that gravity alone, will let the water travel that far and and then up.

 

[jgoal55]

George;288096 wrote: I would raise the parts on the floor to above the lip of the sump. Otherwise you'll start collecting detritus in the elbows and low parts that may eventually cause clogs.

Plus, the return line will cause increased back pressure which will force you to turn the return to the tank way down in order to force water to the fuge.

In a perfect, conservation of momentum/energy world it wouldn't matter, but in the real world we have friction and debris.

My only concern with this as I said earlier is the aesthetics of it. I can hide plumbing along the floor pretty easily, but not when its running across the wall.

However, with what you're saying it makes sense to run it above the lip. How big a problem is this? Will the water flow not push deritus all the way through? What if i put some sort of pre-filter on the overflow?

Gwhiz;288098 wrote: This is what I do as well...basically 'cause I was too lazy to replumb the display tank when I added the frag tank. It was easier to drop in another pump. I have a Mag 18 return and a Quiet One 1200 feeding the frag tank. IF YOU DO THIS, be careful with running the fuge pump when the main return pump is shut down. In my setup, with everything running the frag tank stays at a constant level. With the return pump shut down, the level of the sump rises, reducing the head pressure on the frag pump and it starts to gain on the drain and would eventually flood. I wired the frag feed pump to the same switch as the return pump so that if I kill the return, the frag pump also shuts down. Just make sure there's enough room in your sump for the extra water when both pumps are off.

yeah, awesome advice. Ill wire it so that both pumps kick on and off at the same time.....I guess the advantage of how having a low water level operating sump is that I have plenty of overflow room so that shouldnt be a problem at all.

 

[jgoal55]

quick question.....in the set up described above, where will I see my water evaporate from?
Sump, Fuge, or both?

 

[jgoal55]

cool thanks. A part of me was hoping youd say the fuge cuz that would of made me cancel the whole build for lack of a good place to put a top off but I guess now I have to continue this little project....lol. itll take me a while but itll get done eventually.

 

[glxtrix]

Jgoal55;291926 wrote: ....itll take me a while.....

Man you better not pull a Steve with this setup!!!!

 

[jgoal55]

lets see....how long did it take Steve? Ill try to beat it.

 

[jgoal55]

Ace of Spades;291931 wrote: The way I understand it is:

In both the display and the fuge, you have an overflow. Whether it be drilled or a hang on box, whatever. Water has to reach a certain threshold before it's sent over the overflow and down through your pipes leading to wherever. So the water will always be at that certain threshold unless you have no return flow, in which the water will fall just slightly short of this point.

In your sump, you have no "high" water threshold, because your using a pump that is well below the water's surface.

The water in your DT, and fuge, will stay at that certain point because your pump is always supplying those tanks with enough water for the level in your tank to be at the overflow causing the water to well "overflow". So any evaporation will be noticed in the sump. While evaporation will happen in all of your tanks, the only noticeable level difference will be in the sump. Because your pump will continously push water to maintain those certain levels in other tanks, causing water to overflow back to the sump, and so the cycle continues.

Did that confuse you?

no at all, makes perfect sense. Thanks for the great explanation.