Zach's 120 Gallon Reef Resurgence
- Thread starter zachxlutz
- Start date
Still not sure if they are dinos or a bacterial outbreak, so I'm not sure H2O2 is a viable option.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm of the understanding that silica feeds diatoms rather than dinos. I've looked into the nano-bubbling/microscrubbing method and it's something I'm considering. It seems natural and hopefully wouldn't have any negative side effects although I'm not sure it would cure this.
I'm a bit concerned about that... if this a bacterial bloom, as some have suggested, I believe the acropower could fuel it. I started dosing last night at the suggested weekly rate, but I'm breaking it up daily. This should let me get a handle on how it's effecting the tank.
I'm at wits end here. I feel like I'm learning a lot but I'm not sure what I'm learning is going to cure this issue.
I'm leaning towards thinking this all stems from the strongest algae/bacteria that the Vibrant couldn't combat and it's now taken the low phosphate situation in the tank and taken off with it. I believe it probably would have laid dormant if it was being outcompeted by other more controllable algaes.
I stripped the water in the tank bare from the get go. I was running GFO and changing it out constantly, targeting that 0 phosphate... and succeeding. The tank was a barren wasteland for the first 4 months of the tank. I haven't run any since November. The tank was started in September. I started the KNO3 dosing in early December and the Vibrant shortly after that, as I was dealing with some GHA on the back glass and plastic bits in the tank. If I could go back again and start over, I never would have used the Vibrant or only used it to get it under control and then backed off but I continued dosing as I saw no ill effects until this started popping up.
For the record, I was asked to take some of the stuff out of the tank and swirl it around in a container to see if it reconstituted. It seems like it did. It seemed to form pillar like structures within the container within the first 10 minutes or so.
Immediately after swirling the water around and agitating it with a baster:
alt="" />
10 minutes or so later, you can see how it's reconstituted and formed pillars and stringy sections:
alt="" />
Between seeing the stuff reconstitute and seeing how it covers everything and talking with some knowledgeable people, I believe I have a form of dinoflagellate ostreopsis which I should be able to knock out with a nice small increase in phosphates and allowing some other more controllable algaes to overtake and outcompete.
I stripped the water in the tank bare from the get go. I was running GFO and changing it out constantly, targeting that 0 phosphate... and succeeding. The tank was a barren wasteland for the first 4 months of the tank. I haven't run any since November. The tank was started in September. I started the KNO3 dosing in early December and the Vibrant shortly after that, as I was dealing with some GHA on the back glass and plastic bits in the tank. If I could go back again and start over, I never would have used the Vibrant or only used it to get it under control and then backed off but I continued dosing as I saw no ill effects until this started popping up.
For the record, I was asked to take some of the stuff out of the tank and swirl it around in a container to see if it reconstituted. It seems like it did. It seemed to form pillar like structures within the container within the first 10 minutes or so.
Immediately after swirling the water around and agitating it with a baster:
10 minutes or so later, you can see how it's reconstituted and formed pillars and stringy sections:
Between seeing the stuff reconstitute and seeing how it covers everything and talking with some knowledgeable people, I believe I have a form of dinoflagellate ostreopsis which I should be able to knock out with a nice small increase in phosphates and allowing some other more controllable algaes to overtake and outcompete.
Update:
Crossing my fingers over here. I think I'm making some progress. It looks like the dinoflagellates are slowing down the spreading and possibly receding a bit. I've only been blowing it off of the corals and a little bit here and there when it's impeding on a coral. Additionally, I've been heavily feeding the tank and actively adding KNO3 to keep the nitrates at +/- 3 ppm. The tank is currently consuming about 1.5 ppm of NO3 every day. I think what's happening is the extra feeding is increasing the available phosphates and this is promoting desirable algal and coral growth, thus consuming both NO3 and PO4 in the process and hopefully outcompeting the dinoflagellates as a side effect. I've been tracking the phosphates daily and they are raising and holding steady at about 0.03 +/- 0.02. If I notice the phosphates dropping I'll just throw an extra couple pinches of food or an extra mysis cube. I see a few very small patches of fluffy turf type algae pop up underneath the stringy brown dinoflagellates in some nooks and crannies of the liverock. I think that's encouraging. I can add more snails to deal with that if the Foxface doesn't eat it up first. The macros in the sump seem to be growing and driving up the pH trend, it had been suppressed by about -.1 for the last few weeks. I've also had my calcium and alkalinity dosing off throughout this ordeal as consumption seemed to stop. It's been almost steady for a few weeks now but I think it's finally dropping. This would, in my opinion, indicate that the coral are kicking back into growth mode and consuming alkalinity. I'll continue to monitor and bring dosing back online as needed. One thing I have noticed is there is hardly any of the dinoflagellates in the sump. There is some green looking stuff on the heaters in the return chamber but that's been there for months and hasn't really done much, I assume it's a harmless cyano. I haven't dosed any Vibrant in 17 days. I really hope the bacteria from it are reaching their end of life and it's effects on the system will continue to diminish over time.
It's hard to discern in photos so I don't really have any to post but I'll keep updating this thread as I battle this nightmare.
Crossing my fingers over here. I think I'm making some progress. It looks like the dinoflagellates are slowing down the spreading and possibly receding a bit. I've only been blowing it off of the corals and a little bit here and there when it's impeding on a coral. Additionally, I've been heavily feeding the tank and actively adding KNO3 to keep the nitrates at +/- 3 ppm. The tank is currently consuming about 1.5 ppm of NO3 every day. I think what's happening is the extra feeding is increasing the available phosphates and this is promoting desirable algal and coral growth, thus consuming both NO3 and PO4 in the process and hopefully outcompeting the dinoflagellates as a side effect. I've been tracking the phosphates daily and they are raising and holding steady at about 0.03 +/- 0.02. If I notice the phosphates dropping I'll just throw an extra couple pinches of food or an extra mysis cube. I see a few very small patches of fluffy turf type algae pop up underneath the stringy brown dinoflagellates in some nooks and crannies of the liverock. I think that's encouraging. I can add more snails to deal with that if the Foxface doesn't eat it up first. The macros in the sump seem to be growing and driving up the pH trend, it had been suppressed by about -.1 for the last few weeks. I've also had my calcium and alkalinity dosing off throughout this ordeal as consumption seemed to stop. It's been almost steady for a few weeks now but I think it's finally dropping. This would, in my opinion, indicate that the coral are kicking back into growth mode and consuming alkalinity. I'll continue to monitor and bring dosing back online as needed. One thing I have noticed is there is hardly any of the dinoflagellates in the sump. There is some green looking stuff on the heaters in the return chamber but that's been there for months and hasn't really done much, I assume it's a harmless cyano. I haven't dosed any Vibrant in 17 days. I really hope the bacteria from it are reaching their end of life and it's effects on the system will continue to diminish over time.
It's hard to discern in photos so I don't really have any to post but I'll keep updating this thread as I battle this nightmare.
FTS 06/15/2017:
It's been about three weeks since I updated this thread so I figured it was time for a quick run-down of what's been going on with the tank and how the battle with dinoflagellates is going.
I was kidding myself thinking that just additional feeding was helping with the dinos. I kept feeding and feeding and checking with the Hannah Phosphorus ULR checker and was consistently seeing 0 or 1. ZERO PHOSPHATES. ZILCH.
I finally bit the bullet and bought some http://'http://www.aquavitro.com/products/activate.html'">AquaVitro Activate</a> phosphorus additive and I've been dosing up to .1 every day for the last couple of days and this time... this time I think I see a decrease in the dinos. It seems like the tank is soaking up about 1 ppm NO3 and .05 ppm PO4 daily. I definitely see some more polyp extension and LOTS of growth in the refugium. I'm really hoping this is the path I need to keep following. What really needs to happen is the addition of a few more fish to more naturally increase the bio-load so I can move away from having to dose both nitrates and phosphates.
Last night I added 2 packs of 5280 pods from algaebarn.com and refreshed my CUC with 100 Dwarf Ceriths, 23 Nassarius vibex, 38 Florida Ceriths, 25 Assorted Hermits, 25 Nerites and 1 Fighting Conch.
[B]Florida Fighting Conch (2.5-3" long):[/B]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e0vOSrw.jpg alt="" />
I'm also starting a dosing regimen of live phytoplankton daily to help feed the zooplankton which, hopefully, are playing a role in helping to diminish the dinoflagellates.
Alk has bottomed out at 8.1 for the last 3 weeks with no dosing. I'm seeing slight growth in the coral, just not enough to soak up the alkalinity in the water and require dosing. I'll just keep the calcium and alkalinity dosers off until I see the need to turn them back on.
The refugium is packed with red and green macros that are growing like crazy and proving to be quite the breeding ground for pods, worms and all sorts of tiny little zooplankton. I need to trim it back, but I hate to pull it out, it's looking really neat.
Quick and dirty FTS:
http://i.imgur.com/Os7W2BJ.jpg?1" alt="" />
Things are looking MUCH better lately.
[B]DINO BATTLE:[/B] The dinoflagellates have all but faded and fade more and more every day, although a few patches of cyano have popped up but seem to come and go... Not a problem for now. The NO3 and PO4 levels are, fingers crossed, starting to hold steady at 2-5 ppm and .06-.07. I'll have to dose, I'm sure, but the tank is starting to find equilibrium.
[B]CORAL:[/B] I mounted up a few of the frags that were still on the frag rack a few days ago. Pretty happy with the coral placement so far. NEED MORE! The corals are all looking happy with color and polyp extension returning after our battle with the dinos.
[B]DOSING: [/B]I've been dosing 40 ml live phytoplankton daily along with 4 ml of Acropower. Nothing else is going in the tank but food at this point. The coral are clearly growing, it's evident but the system just isn't using any appreciable amount of alkalinity or calcium. Still holding off for the alk to drop below 8 to start dosing.
[B]LIGHTING:[/B] After watching a few of the new @Bulk Reef Supply videos and doing some more research, I decided that I would raise up the T5 fixture, as I feel like I was blasting too much PAR into the tank with my nutrient levels and it lowered my PAR readings from 500+ at the top of the liverock to around 300-400.
[B]REFUGIUM: [/B]Growing macros like wildfire. Pods, worms, snails and all sorts of life shows up more and more. Everytime I look in the fuge (nightly... it's fun!) I see something new.
http://i.imgur.com/Os7W2BJ.jpg?1" alt="" />
Things are looking MUCH better lately.
[B]DINO BATTLE:[/B] The dinoflagellates have all but faded and fade more and more every day, although a few patches of cyano have popped up but seem to come and go... Not a problem for now. The NO3 and PO4 levels are, fingers crossed, starting to hold steady at 2-5 ppm and .06-.07. I'll have to dose, I'm sure, but the tank is starting to find equilibrium.
[B]CORAL:[/B] I mounted up a few of the frags that were still on the frag rack a few days ago. Pretty happy with the coral placement so far. NEED MORE! The corals are all looking happy with color and polyp extension returning after our battle with the dinos.
[B]DOSING: [/B]I've been dosing 40 ml live phytoplankton daily along with 4 ml of Acropower. Nothing else is going in the tank but food at this point. The coral are clearly growing, it's evident but the system just isn't using any appreciable amount of alkalinity or calcium. Still holding off for the alk to drop below 8 to start dosing.
[B]LIGHTING:[/B] After watching a few of the new @Bulk Reef Supply videos and doing some more research, I decided that I would raise up the T5 fixture, as I feel like I was blasting too much PAR into the tank with my nutrient levels and it lowered my PAR readings from 500+ at the top of the liverock to around 300-400.
[B]REFUGIUM: [/B]Growing macros like wildfire. Pods, worms, snails and all sorts of life shows up more and more. Everytime I look in the fuge (nightly... it's fun!) I see something new.
Does your system have a "copepod reactor"? Mine does!
http://'http://i.imgur.com/WyTlqcU.gif'">[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WyTlqcU.gif" alt="" /></a>
I haven't been running any GFO in this reactor, but it's been kept online with water slowly flowing through it and it's filled to the brim with copepods! It pulls from the manifold leaving the return and dumps back into the refugium... Really neat to see!
http://'http://i.imgur.com/WyTlqcU.gif'">[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WyTlqcU.gif" alt="" /></a>
I haven't been running any GFO in this reactor, but it's been kept online with water slowly flowing through it and it's filled to the brim with copepods! It pulls from the manifold leaving the return and dumps back into the refugium... Really neat to see!
I think a lot of it has to do with the phytoplankton I dose daily into the return compartment of the sump. The return manifold pushes the highly concentrated phytoplankton dosed water through the reactors and back into the refugium as well as to the display.
I'm not sure what I should do with them... I could dump them into the display every so often, but I think i'll just keep letting them breed in there and hope they make it from there into the refugium and then into the display.
Dude I'd love to come by, throw in some pods to seed my tank and it's a deal lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How's it coming along? Still breeding pods like crazy?
01/21/2018 Photo Dump (some iPhone, some DSLR, some edited, some not).
FTS:
alt="eEEn86s[1]" />
alt="J1PQHOR[1]" />
alt="5X4NRTl[1]" />
alt="yFCnc1A[1]" />
alt="xm7O202[1]" />
Things are going great.
Fish are happy.
Coral are growing like wildfire.
Here's a few updates.
I just replaced the T5 bulbs after 12 months and wow... I can't believe how "dull" the old bulbs had gotten. I didn't do a formal PAR test but the fluorescence of the coral and overall look of the tank seems to be greatly improved by swapping out the bulbs for new ones. The old bulbs were definitely worn out, I'll be replacing on a 9 month schedule going forward.
Ostreopsis dinos are a thing of the past, but I still get a bit of the large cell amphidium on the sandbed. The watchman goby does a great job of keeping the sandbed clean on some days and on others not so much. It's strange. Some days it'll look like they're completely gone and some days they'll pop up around the perimeter of the live rock and coral and dust the open areas. I'm considering adding a big handful of Nassarius snails to help keep the sandbed turned over. As a matter of fact, I need to up the snail population of the tank for several things.
I'm dealing with a bit of a cyano outbreak. Rather than treat with chemical means, I'm just blowing it off the rocks and continuing with water changes and keeping the water chemistry as stable as possible. I'm hoping it will subside with time and stability. I've heard of cyano popping up when T5 bulbs have gone past their prime, so maybe with the new bulbs I'll catch a break.
The only thing I'm dosing currently is Alkalinity and Calcium at the rate of 85 ml a day, which equals a consumption rate of .85 dkh and 5.935 ppm. I'll dose up NO3 and PO4 as needed but that's only been once every 2 weeks or so. I'm considering starting back up a bit of live phyto dosing but I haven't made up my mind yet. Things are going good enough that I'm not sure I need to make any changes.
Feather caulerpa has taken over the refugium and completely starved out the chaeto and other macros I had in there. It's fine, the whole goal is nutrient consumption and it seems to work... I'm still having to dose nitrate and phosphate on occasion. I'd rather have to dose occasionally than worry about high nutrients causing problems.
I have a few upgrades planned for the near future. I scored a Neptune DOS unit for AWCs and a new Trigger Systems Triton44 sump from BRS during the Black Friday sales. I'm going to run the plumbing for the DOS auto water change setup from the mixing station in the garage, through the crawlspace and up behind the tank... Not looking forward to crawling around under my house. I'll hopefully be installing the new sump in the next few weeks. I'll have to change up the drain plumbing a bit... That's the step I'm looking forward to the least.
FTS:
Things are going great.
Fish are happy.
Coral are growing like wildfire.
Here's a few updates.
I just replaced the T5 bulbs after 12 months and wow... I can't believe how "dull" the old bulbs had gotten. I didn't do a formal PAR test but the fluorescence of the coral and overall look of the tank seems to be greatly improved by swapping out the bulbs for new ones. The old bulbs were definitely worn out, I'll be replacing on a 9 month schedule going forward.
Ostreopsis dinos are a thing of the past, but I still get a bit of the large cell amphidium on the sandbed. The watchman goby does a great job of keeping the sandbed clean on some days and on others not so much. It's strange. Some days it'll look like they're completely gone and some days they'll pop up around the perimeter of the live rock and coral and dust the open areas. I'm considering adding a big handful of Nassarius snails to help keep the sandbed turned over. As a matter of fact, I need to up the snail population of the tank for several things.
I'm dealing with a bit of a cyano outbreak. Rather than treat with chemical means, I'm just blowing it off the rocks and continuing with water changes and keeping the water chemistry as stable as possible. I'm hoping it will subside with time and stability. I've heard of cyano popping up when T5 bulbs have gone past their prime, so maybe with the new bulbs I'll catch a break.
The only thing I'm dosing currently is Alkalinity and Calcium at the rate of 85 ml a day, which equals a consumption rate of .85 dkh and 5.935 ppm. I'll dose up NO3 and PO4 as needed but that's only been once every 2 weeks or so. I'm considering starting back up a bit of live phyto dosing but I haven't made up my mind yet. Things are going good enough that I'm not sure I need to make any changes.
Feather caulerpa has taken over the refugium and completely starved out the chaeto and other macros I had in there. It's fine, the whole goal is nutrient consumption and it seems to work... I'm still having to dose nitrate and phosphate on occasion. I'd rather have to dose occasionally than worry about high nutrients causing problems.
I have a few upgrades planned for the near future. I scored a Neptune DOS unit for AWCs and a new Trigger Systems Triton44 sump from BRS during the Black Friday sales. I'm going to run the plumbing for the DOS auto water change setup from the mixing station in the garage, through the crawlspace and up behind the tank... Not looking forward to crawling around under my house. I'll hopefully be installing the new sump in the next few weeks. I'll have to change up the drain plumbing a bit... That's the step I'm looking forward to the least.
Hi Zach, Good to hear the tank has been doing well. That FTS looks great.
While adding pics to this site is a little different, it's much easier as well. At the moment you are allowed 5 pics per post. I edited the 1st 5 you had so they show up. If you have the pics on your PC or Mac it's a simple drag and drop after clicking the insert image button. For phones and tablets a quick search is and tap is all that's needed. There's no need to host the pics somewhere else. The site will host and resize them for you, very similarly to the way Tapatalk does. Hope that's helps and if you have any questions let me know and I'll be happy to help. Also if you'd like the post cleaned up I can do that for you too.
While adding pics to this site is a little different, it's much easier as well. At the moment you are allowed 5 pics per post. I edited the 1st 5 you had so they show up. If you have the pics on your PC or Mac it's a simple drag and drop after clicking the insert image button. For phones and tablets a quick search is and tap is all that's needed. There's no need to host the pics somewhere else. The site will host and resize them for you, very similarly to the way Tapatalk does. Hope that's helps and if you have any questions let me know and I'll be happy to help. Also if you'd like the post cleaned up I can do that for you too.
