A fish quarantine and hospital story

[sammy33]

I decided it was time to get some new fish. My quarantine system (actually a spare empty frag tank) has been cleaned out for some time now with only a few frags that I am growing out remaining in the tanks. Plenty of room to quarantine a few new fishies.

Yesterday I headed to a nearby LFS and purchased a healthy looking trio of blue/green chromis and a 2.5" Regal Blue Tang. None of these fish showed any signs of disease. They seemed healthy and appeared to eat. The tang seemed to be grazing on the rocks. :yay:

I brought them home in placed them in my extra frag tank. This tank serves as a primary fish QT tank and can be taken out of the loop with my other two frag tanks. This system is separate from my display so it works out as a QT for fish. After about 90 minutes of acclimating (store water was 1.019) they were swimming around and looking fair. I checked again before I went to bed and the fish seemed fair. The tang was hiding behind a peice of live rock and not moving much but still breathing/alive.

This morning I get some coffee and head down to check the fish in the QT.
:yikes:
ICH! Spots on all the fish. Spots on their fins, spots on their head. Dang! Where is the tang? I finally find her under</em> a rock, breathing heavy and covered with spots. :doh: She also now has the cloudy eyes symptom.

Well good thing I put them in the QT system. This is only the second time I have had to deal with saltwater ich and don't remember dealing with any bacterial infections either. I have had some fish mysteriously die in the past but...who knows? I considered using some sort of reef safe medicine (because of the live rock in this tank) to treat the ich but these remedies seem to be too gentle and I really want to save these fish. The tang doesn't look good.

I decided to setup a smaller hospital tank and treat the fish with some stronger meds. I received some great advice from Brandon (thanks again) on using Formalin 3 in either a tank treatment for several days or an even stronger 45 minute dip. Here is my 10g emergency room:

alt="" />
<ul>
<li>10g tank</li>
<li>Millennium 1000 Hang-on Filter</li>
<li>Micro jet 450 powerhead</li>
<li>Stealth 50 watt heater</li>
<li>thermometer</li>
<li>over sink light</li>
<li>couple of coffe mugs for fish hideouts (don\'t tell my wife )</li>
</ul>

After setting up and transferring the fish with 10g of water from the other tank I started the treatment using Formalin3. The millennium filter has the aeration feature which seems well suited to a QT tank. Oxygen levels can drop during formalin treatments so I ran the aeration wide open to add oxygen. I dosed the tank with the higher dose and left the fish in for 30-40 minutes and then started a water change.

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After a 30 minute dip it appeared that most, if not all, of the spots were gone. The 100% water change was done with water that only aged for about 4 hours but seems to have not stressed the fish too much. The tang is a bit more active but still has cloudy eyes. The tang breathing is still labored but not as desperate. The chromis are all swimming around and looking fair.

I will report back in tomorrow morning (today) and let you know how these guys are doing. The chromis look ok but the tang...I don't know? :unsure:

 

[victor626nj]

wow glad to hear all went well good luck with the regal tang told you that stuff really works and its so much better than copper

 

[xyzpdq0121]

That is good news Sammy... If he can make it through the night, the major battle is over. Please let me know how he did.

 

[sammy33]

The tang lives! She seems to be doing better. When I checked this morning she was actually upright and moving a little. Eyes are still cloudy. Breathing still appears labored but not as severe. I am going to try to feed again today and then do another water change tonight.

The chromis are looking even better today. They appeared hungry and have been eating regularly.

Brandon - Thank you again for your counsel.

 

[atlfishes]

What are the advantages of using Formalin3 for Ick vs. a Cupramine?

 

[victor626nj]

it isnt as harsh on the fish like copper would be

 

[xyzpdq0121]

atlfishes;102847 wrote: What are the advantages of using Formalin3 for Ick vs. a Cupramine?

Treatment Option 1 - Copper:</em>
Copper is a highly effective medication against Cryptocaryon irritans when dosed and maintained in the proper concentration. The references I found varied in their recommended dosage: Andrews et al, 1988: 0.15-0.30 mg/l Bassleer, 1996: 0.25-0.30 mg/l Gratzek et al, 1992: 0.115-0.18 mg/l Noga, 2000: 0.15-0.20 mg/l Untergasser, 1989: 0.15-0.20 mg/l*
<ul>
<li>(recommends to be used with Methylene Blue)</li>
</ul>I am going to abbreviate my advice and simply suggest to: "Always follow the directions of the manufacturer of whichever brand of copper medication you employ, and always use a test kit to verify the dosages." Copper has a narrow range of effectiveness and levels must be monitored at least daily. Copper has several disadvantages in treating Ich. First, at too low a dosage, it is ineffective. Secondly, at too high a dosage, it could kill all your fish. Daily, or better yet twice daily, testing is required to maintain an appropriate and consistent level of copper. Even when within the appropriate ranges, some fish cannot tolerate copper. Some of the fish more sensitive to copper are lionfish, pufferfish, mandarins, blennies, and any other scaleless fish. Copper is also a known immunosuppressive, making fish more susceptible to secondary infections. Invertebrates are extremely sensitive to copper and cannot be housed in a tank undergoing this treatment. Lastly, copper cannot be used in the presence of any calcareous media. Live rock, sand, crushed coral, and dead coral skeletons will all adsorb copper, rendering it useless a treatment. Copper specifically targets the infectious, free-swimming theront stage of this disease, as being buried deep in the skin of the host protects the trophonts; the cyst walls of the tomonts are similarly impervious (Colorni & Burgess, 1997). Knowing this and the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans, monitoring and dosing as needed in the evening right before the lights go out is going to be the most effective method. This should ensure optimal treatment concentrations at the most beneficial time. Copper is probably the most popular method of treating Cryptocaryon irritans, but is not my first choice. It is far too labor intensive for me to recommend to the general public, has a large risk of overdose, lowers the fish's resistance to other diseases, and can cause serious damage to the kidney, liver, and beneficial intestinal flora of the fish being treated. Damage to intestinal flora is what many hobbyists point to as a possible contributing cause for Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE), although there is currently no definitive cause of HLLE. <Used only at a last resort if Hyposalinity does not work!>

Treatment Option 2 - Formalin:</em>
Formalin can be administered one of two ways; either in short dips with saltwater or used continually in a hospital tank. The dosage for the continuous use is 1 ml of the 37% stock solution for every 25 gallons of quarantine tank water (Bassleer, 1996). I prefer the formalin dip to continuous use because formalin is a fairly toxic compound. Also, with no commercially available test kits to monitor the concentration, it would be difficult to dose an entire tank and account for evaporation, absorption, etc.
To prepare the dip, I take 5 gallons of tank water and add to it 3.75 ml of 37% formalin. I also aerate the water vigorously to ensure there is maximum dissolved oxygen. The dip should last 30 to 60 minutes. As when using any medication, it is best to monitor the fish's reaction and be prepared to act if it appears in distress. When the dip is complete, net the fish, place it back into the hospital tank, and discard the dip water. This protocol should be repeated every other day for two weeks.
I would like to remind readers of a few precautions regarding the use of formalin. First, it is a carcinogen. Formalin is an aqueous solution of carcinogenic formaldehyde gas, so gloves should be worn and the area should be well ventilated when using it. Secondly, formalin should not be used if fish have open sores, wounds, or lesions. It is likely to cause tissue damage to these open wounds. And lastly, formalin can rob the water of dissolved oxygen. That is why proper aeration is so crucial. For that reason, do not use formalin if the water temperature is 82*F or higher (Noga, 2000 and Michael, 2002).

Treatment Option 3 - Copper & Formalin:</em>
It is possible and sometimes preferable, like in the case of heavy infestations of Cryptocaryon irritans and Amyloodinium sp., to use copper in conjunction with Formalin in a quarantine/hospital tank. The same warnings about sensitive fish still apply. If a fish is sensitive to either copper or Formalin, they are not safely exposed to the combined protocol. At this point, it is "cure or kill." You will either cure your fish or kill it from poisoning. It is the most aggressive and dangerous treatment described in this article.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

atlfishes;102847 wrote: What are the advantages of using Formalin3 for Ick vs. a Cupramine?

Depends on the fish that you are treating and what you are treating for. If a fish is far off, like Sammy's was, a Formalin3 dip is recommended by me because you can use it in a dip for 50 min or so. It usually does the most work quickly and gives the fish the best chance of survival. Copper leaches into things so you will NEVER get it out of the tank you use it in and as such, that tank can only be used for treatment from then on. Copper can not be used on some fish, like an angel. Don't get me wrong, copper is very effective and good and safe id used right in the right cases. For what Sammy needed, I recommended Formalin3.

Sammy, do you see any more spots? Like we discussed, give the tang about 3-4 days to recover and you might want to dip again. Lets see if he eats first though. We will deal with the cloudy eyes in a bit if he does not correct them on his own.

 

[sammy33]

The chromis ate no problem (pigs) when I fed tonight. The tang is still not interested in food. I have been trying some rich feeds with strong attractants like arcti-pods and cyclopeeze. I have also tried algae sheets and formula 2. The chromis seem to eat whatever I put in but the tang is still stressed I think.

The eyes are still cloudy on the tang. No obvious ich spots that I can see on any of the fish. The tang has what looks like scrapes. I think this is from hiding under the live rocks? (note to self: no live rock in the QT tank from now on :doh: ).
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[victor626nj]

you can try that garlic extreme i bought from you i know it was the last one but i can bring it over to you im only 5 min away

 

[sammy33]

Mmmm...garlic. Good idea Victor. I will try a garlic soaked peice of algae. :bubba:

I have also seen garlic recommended as a treatment. The other treatment I have seen is the hyposalinity treatment. Hyposalinity is dropping the tank to 1.009 over about a two day period and then keeping there until the fish recover from the ich. The ich parasites cannot survive this but the fish can. The lower salinity has some advantages for a stressed fish as well.

 

[victor626nj]

do you have some or do you want me to take you some if so pm me your address and ill take it when you want

 

[victor626nj]

how the fish doing the hippo eating yet

 

[sammy33]

Well dang...the blue tang did not make it. :sad:

The chromis however have recovered fantastically and are eating like the little piggies they are. I have been feeding them cyclopeeze and emerald entree to fatten them up.

I guess I had a false sense of security as I have had minimal problems with new fish getting sick. Some things I have learned about quarantining and treating fish:
<ul>
<li>Sick fish can recover.</li>
<li>Have your QT and/or hospital tank ready to go before you get new fish.</li>
<li>Have medicines for bacterial and parasitic infections on hand.</li>
<li>Have extra saltwater mixed and ready.</li>
<li>Don't purchase fish before a major holiday.</li>
</ul>

The last point is really the one that got me. I was gone almost the whole day last thursday/friday for Thanksgiving dinners with family and did not get the chance to treat the fish for the bacterial infection. I think had I had an extra day to do the anti-biotic treatment the tang may have survived. :doh:

 

[victor626nj]

Well At Leaste He Is In Fishy Heaven I Had A Good Experiance At Blue Planet Todayit Is Far But If You Get The Chance To Go There Please Do So She Doesnt Have Any Sand Which Is A Plus Cause Nowere For Parisites To Hide And She Gives Them All Kinds Of Medications Before She Sells Them The Fish There Are Healthier Than Most Of Our Tank Two Thumbs Up

 

[krb]

Victor626nj;105407 wrote: Well At Leaste He Is In Fishy Heaven I Had A Good Experiance At Blue Planet Todayit Is Far But If You Get The Chance To Go There Please Do So She Doesnt Have Any Sand Which Is A Plus Cause Nowere For Parisites To Hide And She Gives Them All Kinds Of Medications Before She Sells Them The Fish There Are Healthier Than Most Of Our Tank Two Thumbs Up

Their livestock is always in GREAT shape

 

[skriz]

Victor626nj;105407 wrote: Well At Leaste He Is In Fishy Heaven I Had A Good Experiance At Blue Planet Todayit Is Far But If You Get The Chance To Go There Please Do So She Doesnt Have Any Sand Which Is A Plus Cause Nowere For Parisites To Hide And She Gives Them All Kinds Of Medications Before She Sells Them The Fish There Are Healthier Than Most Of Our Tank Two Thumbs Up

wth does that post say? :huh:

 

[victor626nj]

Just Read It Slow ,and A Couple Of Time ,youll Get It .lol.sorry I Told You Guys My Grammer Sucks

 

[sammy33]

Skriz;105421 wrote: wth does that post say? :huh:

You have to know how to speak "Victor".

 

[victor626nj]

Raj im really no that stupid, im just really bad at writing and spelling.