So ive got some ideas floating arounf in my head for my next tank and I was wondering what everyones opinions were on the advantages and disadvantages of the settups. Id like opinions from people who have ran both for a period of time an what they prefer, not what people have ready im looking for actual experiences. thanks, how hard is it on corals to go from 250w halide to t-5's???
ARC opinions on T5 vs. Halides from experience?
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I ran T5's for 2 years and I'm running Halides now on my 90.
T5's: Awesome bang for the buck.
Much cheaper to replace bulbs.
Much less heat output....actually does not cause my tank to run hot/ no need for cooling fans
Doesn't cause algae to grow quite so fast
Halides: Spectacular light output with shimmering effect on water which is beautiful
Puts off a lot of heat causing me to have to run 2 large cooling fans and monitor temp. much closer.
Much faster and more noticeable growth on corals.
Much faster growth of algae on glass = more scraping.
More expensive to replace bulbs.
In all reality I went from a 4 x 54 watt Outer Orbit T5 kit to an Outer Orbit kit with 4 54watt t5's and 2 150watt HQI's so much of the growth in coral and algae comes from upping the wattage. However, I wouldn't trade my hallides for anything simply for the shimmering effect on the water and the response in my corals.
Also, when i switched kits, I slowly got the corals used to the light change by starting out with the halides only on for 4 hours a day. Then every 2-3 days I would up it one hour until I hit my 7.5 hour time.
T5's: Awesome bang for the buck.
Much cheaper to replace bulbs.
Much less heat output....actually does not cause my tank to run hot/ no need for cooling fans
Doesn't cause algae to grow quite so fast
Halides: Spectacular light output with shimmering effect on water which is beautiful
Puts off a lot of heat causing me to have to run 2 large cooling fans and monitor temp. much closer.
Much faster and more noticeable growth on corals.
Much faster growth of algae on glass = more scraping.
More expensive to replace bulbs.
In all reality I went from a 4 x 54 watt Outer Orbit T5 kit to an Outer Orbit kit with 4 54watt t5's and 2 150watt HQI's so much of the growth in coral and algae comes from upping the wattage. However, I wouldn't trade my hallides for anything simply for the shimmering effect on the water and the response in my corals.
Also, when i switched kits, I slowly got the corals used to the light change by starting out with the halides only on for 4 hours a day. Then every 2-3 days I would up it one hour until I hit my 7.5 hour time.
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Yea, what they said. I had HQI's for about 4 months and am running t-5s now. I personally like t-5s but do like the shimmer. About the only thing worth it in my opinion was that effect. Go with what you like. You can always sell your old stuff and replace it with something different. Thats what I did. Started with 2 150w HQI and 4x54w t-5 to 8 t-5. The main bonus I like in regards to t-5s is the color customization. You can make your tank look anyway you want in regards to light coloration. With halides your kinda limited. Granted you do get better growth with halides vs t-5's. All depends on your flavor.
T5 all the way.....run 8-54 watt bulbs all ranging in a different spectrum...
used to run 2-400w 14K on my 90.....
never going back to MH.....power and cooling bills over $500 a month...no me anymore.
T5 gives a more uniform light across the entire tank, no dark spots...me, I could care less about the shimmer...and I still have it....just run your return at the water level...the disturbance at the top will create shimmer with the T5 as well.
anyway T5 forever
used to run 2-400w 14K on my 90.....
never going back to MH.....power and cooling bills over $500 a month...no me anymore.
T5 gives a more uniform light across the entire tank, no dark spots...me, I could care less about the shimmer...and I still have it....just run your return at the water level...the disturbance at the top will create shimmer with the T5 as well.
anyway T5 forever
The shimmer is what sells me on the halides. I had both set up recently and I have to say I liked both but the shimmer was missing on the t-5's. As mentioned before I think you can dial in the color on the t-5's a little more, but I dont complain about the color with my phoenix bulbs. I never got to do the par readings on my t-5's but from what I have seen they are right there with halides and might even penetrate a little deeper.
i would like to formally disagree, MH punches the light straight down so you are getting more light but in a spot light sort of thing, t5 puts the light you need in an even spread not putting too much light in a single spot.
ex. PBJ
MH- a whole jar of PB and J in just the center of the bread and no where else
T5- the whole jar spread out on all of the bread.
just take away the spreading affect with pressure.
warloc4326
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There has been a ton of debate on this subject. I remember reading tons of articles from different publishers. Advanced aquarist also has a good overview of color from spectrum.
One thing that you really need to do is find the par / lumen output of the lamps you're considering. Then figure out the heat / wattage of that particular lamp setup.
If you consider LED lighting being brand new etc. and look at it's output VS halides you'll find a huge difference in the needed electricity to power those lamps. Same goes with T5s as a comparison. If you look at everything equally and get to the same par / lumen output then you're closely comparing the efficiency of the lamps.
Once you come down to a conclusion and equal all of that out it's all up to the preference of shimmer and flexibility of color temperature.
halides and LED will shimmer as they're a point light.
VHO/t5/fluorescent will not be as noticeable.
One thing that you really need to do is find the par / lumen output of the lamps you're considering. Then figure out the heat / wattage of that particular lamp setup.
If you consider LED lighting being brand new etc. and look at it's output VS halides you'll find a huge difference in the needed electricity to power those lamps. Same goes with T5s as a comparison. If you look at everything equally and get to the same par / lumen output then you're closely comparing the efficiency of the lamps.
Once you come down to a conclusion and equal all of that out it's all up to the preference of shimmer and flexibility of color temperature.
halides and LED will shimmer as they're a point light.
VHO/t5/fluorescent will not be as noticeable.
I think it also depends on what you want to keep.
I'am now running 6 T-5's across my tank working on 7 months now. I ran MH for about 8 years. I've mainly keep SPS well over 10 years. Some of my SPS collection is doing fine under the T-5 some aren't. My LPS and zoas are going crazy.
I think my T5's make the tank look flat compared to the MH and that maybe due to the lamp selection. But I don't have heat issues (major issue with my tank) and don't have dead spots in the tank (another issue with MH). You can mix lamps to get the desired color that you want with T5 (Still working on that). My 6 lamps cost just a tad more than my single MH bulb. Plus T5's can last longer.
Since I'm headed in the LPS direction, I'm going to stick with the T5s for the time being.
I'am now running 6 T-5's across my tank working on 7 months now. I ran MH for about 8 years. I've mainly keep SPS well over 10 years. Some of my SPS collection is doing fine under the T-5 some aren't. My LPS and zoas are going crazy.
I think my T5's make the tank look flat compared to the MH and that maybe due to the lamp selection. But I don't have heat issues (major issue with my tank) and don't have dead spots in the tank (another issue with MH). You can mix lamps to get the desired color that you want with T5 (Still working on that). My 6 lamps cost just a tad more than my single MH bulb. Plus T5's can last longer.
Since I'm headed in the LPS direction, I'm going to stick with the T5s for the time being.
As with everything else, there are pros and cons to both of these lighting types, many of which have been listed above. I have used both for a number of years and for me some of the factors that I use to decide which I'll use for a particular setup are:
the tank's dimensions
the biotope I'm trying to recreate
will heat be an issue
If so, do I want to add a chiller to the system
initial cost of the setup
bulb replacement cost
energy costs
Depending on the setup and the tank dimensions, both will easily provide the light needed for even the highest light loving animals we strive to maintain so you can not go wrong with whichever you chose.
the tank's dimensions
the biotope I'm trying to recreate
will heat be an issue
If so, do I want to add a chiller to the system
initial cost of the setup
bulb replacement cost
energy costs
Depending on the setup and the tank dimensions, both will easily provide the light needed for even the highest light loving animals we strive to maintain so you can not go wrong with whichever you chose.
t5s all the way...sick of the heat issue with mh...i have amazing growth with my sps and i have 4X48 t5s and 2X36 t5s...the shimmer i get with the return and i have no dead spots at all auctually i was going to remove the center brace on my tank and replace it with clear but my lps is bleaching from toooo much light so i put them (my hammmer coral frogspawn and torch coral) under the center brace and presto no more bleaching...and by the way they were at the bottom almost when they started alll bleaching moved to the center bottom and within 2-3 days no more bleaching...I beleave that t5s wont fade as the old schoolers (no pun intened) will always use them...New wave is LED and t5...any who your choice....t5 setup typically cheaper cooler longer bulb life...any one remember that meeting about two years ago where the guy showed what sps grew better at well i mean par readings...there were very few that were even up in the high three hundred range most were between 250-350 par...old school reefers beleave you have to rope the sun and try and cram it under you canopy...with good flow you just don't need this
It wasn't a coralife fixture.....it was a Current USA fixture.....and it wasn't inches off the water..It was 6 to 7 " off the water....
My tank stayed at 78 degrees as well....
How do you know what I had?
Also......if you really want to see that it looked like..I did a comparison on the PAR ratings PRIOR to removing the MH and AFTER I put the T5's on
that's your test..I did it..and in some locations, the T5 were better! Sure right under the MH was off the scale....so what? A coral can only use so much PAR, so basically overdriving a coral with light does no good anyway.
Find that thread and look for yourself
Metal halides only seem to run hotter than T5s because halides are a point source of heat, just as they are a point source of light. If you have a 400 watt SE Halide bulb and 400 watts of T5, with the halide you have all the heat generated by the bulb emanating from a point with surface area equal to about half your thumb. T5s disperse heat the entire length of the bulb.
A rough equivalent of 400 watts of T5 lighting are eight 4 foot T5 bulbs at 54 watts each (432 watts total). That is a glass tube 32 feet long x 5/8" in thickness. A halide bulb produces light in a glass tube about 1 1/4" x 5/8".
432 watts of T5 bulbs have approximately 300 times the surface area of a 400 watt metal halide bulb. I am referring to the ARC tube in the halide bulb where the light/heat is produced, not the UV glass jacket that surrounds the bulb.
Concentrate the heat from a 30-32 foot total length of T5 bulbs down to a point source 1 1/4" x 5/8" for a true comparison. See if you get burned.
Metal halides only appear to be hotter than T5 or flourescent lighting because all their heat is in one area, and not spread out over the length of the T5 tubes.
Dave
A rough equivalent of 400 watts of T5 lighting are eight 4 foot T5 bulbs at 54 watts each (432 watts total). That is a glass tube 32 feet long x 5/8" in thickness. A halide bulb produces light in a glass tube about 1 1/4" x 5/8".
432 watts of T5 bulbs have approximately 300 times the surface area of a 400 watt metal halide bulb. I am referring to the ARC tube in the halide bulb where the light/heat is produced, not the UV glass jacket that surrounds the bulb.
Concentrate the heat from a 30-32 foot total length of T5 bulbs down to a point source 1 1/4" x 5/8" for a true comparison. See if you get burned.
Metal halides only appear to be hotter than T5 or flourescent lighting because all their heat is in one area, and not spread out over the length of the T5 tubes.
Dave
True, but the regardless of that the radiant heat can be different, and spreading that heat out still has some desirable cooling qualities.
My T5s are overdriven, and hot to the touch when on. The wattage comparison you made to the 400w lamp is accurate, I'd say. The only difference I see is that the T5's allow the tank to run much cooler in my case than 2 400w halides would (compared to my 680 W of T5). I guess the surface area dissipates the heat before it is really transferred to the water. I think some of this is aided by the active cooling many high end t5 setups have.
I have not compared my par to MHs on my tank, but I am confident that my readings would compare to that of an average 2 x 400W setup (with exceptions, such as lumenbright setups). I know that mine were comparable to Lee's 3 x 175 W setup, as far as PAR goes.= on a similarly sized tank.
Anyways, the true argument is still up in the air, and it comes down to preference, and I guess you might even say it is apples and oranges.
I have zero heat issues, dont run a costly chiller, and have decent results so far with t5s. Time will tell more for me. For that I will stick to T5s for the time being, until energy costs go way down or my paycheck goes way up.
Assuming I hade no monetary limit on my setup, and did not mind the necessity of a chiller, I would probably do a t5-MH combo, actually.
If you are really interested in learning about t5's, check out reef central's myriad of threads. It will make your head spin, but lots of good examples and pics of very sucessful T5 setups.
My T5s are overdriven, and hot to the touch when on. The wattage comparison you made to the 400w lamp is accurate, I'd say. The only difference I see is that the T5's allow the tank to run much cooler in my case than 2 400w halides would (compared to my 680 W of T5). I guess the surface area dissipates the heat before it is really transferred to the water. I think some of this is aided by the active cooling many high end t5 setups have.
I have not compared my par to MHs on my tank, but I am confident that my readings would compare to that of an average 2 x 400W setup (with exceptions, such as lumenbright setups). I know that mine were comparable to Lee's 3 x 175 W setup, as far as PAR goes.= on a similarly sized tank.
Anyways, the true argument is still up in the air, and it comes down to preference, and I guess you might even say it is apples and oranges.
I have zero heat issues, dont run a costly chiller, and have decent results so far with t5s. Time will tell more for me. For that I will stick to T5s for the time being, until energy costs go way down or my paycheck goes way up.
Assuming I hade no monetary limit on my setup, and did not mind the necessity of a chiller, I would probably do a t5-MH combo, actually.
If you are really interested in learning about t5's, check out reef central's myriad of threads. It will make your head spin, but lots of good examples and pics of very sucessful T5 setups.
I wouldn't argue at all that T5s have more equal dispersion over halides. Doubt you can avoid that with a point source like halides vs all the surface area of a T5.
Lots of things to consider. Where your tank is has a lot to do with wether you have heat issues as well. Glass tops? Canopys can build heat, whereas pendants are less likely, IMO. Is your canopy fan cooled, etc. Tank placement as well. My 210 is in my basement, open top with 3 x 400 watt SE halide pendants. My heater comes on in the winter, and my 1/4 HP chiller only comes on for about 1-2 hours in the summer toward the end of my light period. This is probably due to the basement location on the tank, where the ambient temp is always lower than the first floor by 3-4 degrees.
Lots of things to consider. Where your tank is has a lot to do with wether you have heat issues as well. Glass tops? Canopys can build heat, whereas pendants are less likely, IMO. Is your canopy fan cooled, etc. Tank placement as well. My 210 is in my basement, open top with 3 x 400 watt SE halide pendants. My heater comes on in the winter, and my 1/4 HP chiller only comes on for about 1-2 hours in the summer toward the end of my light period. This is probably due to the basement location on the tank, where the ambient temp is always lower than the first floor by 3-4 degrees.
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I run MH and will never not run them.
First off, I think it is an overplayed old wives tale about the "necessity" to run chillers with MH. I ran MH for probably 10 years only using fans, and my water temp NEVER got above 82. In fact, I have recently started using a chiller, but only because I added 150 watts of UV to the system. For that matter, I have seen T5 tankls that did NEED to run a chiller, because they had the lamps 3" off the water. So, I dont think that is a valid argument.
Secondly, I dont want uniformity in light intensity. It makes for a boring, static image of the tank. Many people choose color tone over shimmer. I dont, and will never. It looks like water when you see the shimmer. Furthermore, I would argue that a 20KK Radium and some selective supplements could match the blueish purples most often seen from T5's.
As everyone has said, it boils down to preference. And not even necessarily coral coloration or graowth. There have eben enough studies to show that many corals we keep would actually do best under VHO T8's, with much less PAR than we occasionally balst them with. So, it boild down to what we want to see. I dont want to see a tank lit by fluorescents. They bore me. Not because of their color, or theirtones, but because of the "fakeness" of teh bulb output. However, when you see a MH shimmer, it looks like nature. Real water.
Yeah, I know, goofy abstract. But I like what I like.
First off, I think it is an overplayed old wives tale about the "necessity" to run chillers with MH. I ran MH for probably 10 years only using fans, and my water temp NEVER got above 82. In fact, I have recently started using a chiller, but only because I added 150 watts of UV to the system. For that matter, I have seen T5 tankls that did NEED to run a chiller, because they had the lamps 3" off the water. So, I dont think that is a valid argument.
Secondly, I dont want uniformity in light intensity. It makes for a boring, static image of the tank. Many people choose color tone over shimmer. I dont, and will never. It looks like water when you see the shimmer. Furthermore, I would argue that a 20KK Radium and some selective supplements could match the blueish purples most often seen from T5's.
As everyone has said, it boils down to preference. And not even necessarily coral coloration or graowth. There have eben enough studies to show that many corals we keep would actually do best under VHO T8's, with much less PAR than we occasionally balst them with. So, it boild down to what we want to see. I dont want to see a tank lit by fluorescents. They bore me. Not because of their color, or theirtones, but because of the "fakeness" of teh bulb output. However, when you see a MH shimmer, it looks like nature. Real water.
Yeah, I know, goofy abstract. But I like what I like.
Jeremy has a good point. I have run both systems without a chiller. I feel most people overkill halides. In most cases they can be easily run without a chiller. Although light is important to most SPS, Its just a part of the puzzle. Make sure you have all the pieces covered and you wont need to blast your corals with 10,000 gigawatts of light.
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