Are my fish sick AGAIN?

[texhorns98]

Wow...I just can't catch a break these days. After an (almost) total tank wipeout, I started over and upgraded along the way. It's been a couple of months now and 3 days ago my clowns decided to show me some white "stuff" on them. Yesterday, I noticed the powder brown had the same thing. Tonight, everyone ate very well, except the PBT. "She" normally attacks anything in the tank, but tonight...not so much. I even soaked the Ocean Nutrition RDF Formula 1 in garlic. I put a 1/2 sheet of nori in there just now to see if she'll take that. I also threw in some fish eggs that she normally hoovers up, but she didn't bite. She just swims around confused. Not good. I apologize for the crappy pics, but it's all I can muster at this point. I leave town in 13 hours, but only for one day. Any ideas?

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All I can do is my best. So far, that doesn't seem to be working in this hobby.

 

[ralph atl]

it's hard to say, but they don't look good. Ich, brook, sorry! Sucks!

click on ich on the tags on the home page. should give you everything you need to know.
Ralph

 

[dakota9]

Just out of curiosity, what temp is your tank?

 

[coolsurf]

I really hate it for ya. If they are still eating, try dosing their food in garlic. It may help but if they start to slip, get them into a hospital tank right away.

 

[jennm]

Quarantine - NOW. Looks to me like Brooklynella on the clowns.

Give me a timeline - what did you add, and when, and when did the symptoms start and on whom, etc.?

Brook *can* kill in hours (but not necessarily).

Formalin in a Q-tank (or at the very least a formalin bath) - NO MEDS IN THE MAIN TANK.

Jenn

 

[jennm]

BTW - the Brook can spread to the tang... although that might be something else, I can't quite tell. PBT are prone to ich also - but it does not look like ich on the clowns - so you might have a couple of things happening.

Did you Q your new fish before putting in the display? If so - how long? Any prophylactic treatments?

I'm just getting caffeinated so I might think of more questions

Jenn

 

[dannybradley]

I second formalin for brookynella. If you cannot find just formalin, start reading the active ingredients on ich medications. Many are formalin and malachite green.

 

[jennm]

One more case in point for QUARANTINE before adding to the display.

Sadly many/most don't invest in a q-tank until they've hit a snag like this

Jenn

 

[texhorns98]

PBT is gone...FUDGE!!

I can see one clown, but the other is MIA. Not unusual before the actinics come on though.

Things added lately:

-Three firefish on 4/17 (not QT'd, of course)
-Several frags from two different member's tanks-two small colonies as well on 4/25-26. Also a small bunch of chaeto with a new fuge lamp.
-Usual two part dosing schedule of every other day or so, Reef Code A/B
-Food as normal
-I used some super glue gel on the frags (total of three disks and 4 plugs)
-I put a nylon plug on the drain hole of my skimmer cup, used a little duct tape to seal it in there until I can find a better option.
-Temp is between 79.8 and 81.2 and I just added a small fan in the cabinet.

I'm going to run all tests now, I'll post if something weird comes up. QT from now on, you're right. But this tang looked great for two months, the clowns looked great for three. I waited another month after the tang to put anything more in there. I should have QT'd the firefish, I guess. Of course, I SHOULD have QT'd everything!

 

[jennm]

Are the firefish and bar goby showing any symptoms? For what it's worth - I've not seen anything in my system (where the firefish and bar goby came from).. if I had, I'd have let you know. Not saying it's "impossible" to have come from them, but not likely - nobody else has reported issues either (knock on wood)...

Odd that stuff would take this long to show up - usually if they are brewing something, it appears pretty quickly, especially Brook. Then again sometimes none of this seems logical

Rule out food/dosing - that doesn't bring in illness. I don't know of any pathogen that can transmit to fish from inverts. Unless something rode in on the substrates attached to corals (extremely long shot?!)...

The duct tape is a non-issue because anything that comes in contact with it is not going back to the tank. Temp is a bit high... but many folks are going through that right now.

I went googling for some articles on transmission and I couldn't find anything specific...

Here's one: http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/brooklynella/">http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/brooklynella/</a>

Although I disagree that use of copper will reduce the risk of this protozoan - copper has proven to be ineffective.

Here's another: [IMG]http://www.fishvet.com/Brooklynella.htm">http://www.fishvet.com/Brooklynella.htm</a>

The author of that article saved my bacon when I first opened and had a shipment that was infected with Vibrio (talk about a wipe-out - needless to say I don't use THAT supplier anymore - or since).

This is sort of a long shot too - but when you add something to you tank, do you dump the bag water into the tank? Articles seem to imply that the free swimming life stage can survive in the water column for some time.

Jenn

 

[texhorns98]

Found the other clown in a cave...not moving. I don't know if I can get to him, would I be OK to let the CUC take care of him? I can only imagine the other might be not too far behind him. Problem is, I'm supposed to be leaving town in less than two hours. Crap...

 

[texhorns98]

I just checked the duct tape seal, it's leaking a little back into the tank now. So, skimmer juice has been going back in (one drop every couple seconds). This also means it's been in contact with the duct tape as it pushes out. Don't know if that's a worry or not. I also just checked for stray voltage so we're good there.

Edit: No signs of anything on the firefish lately, but you know I lost that one guy a couple of days after he went it. I'm not so hopeful to find him at this point!:boo:

 

[texhorns98]

I just found my pink spotted watchman. Tough little SOB! He survived the original wipeout as well. Had the run of the 72g while I built the new tank. Also just found the purple firefish and the skunk cleaner both sleeping. Still missing is the fireshrimp and the other firefish. I guess I like fire?

 

[tim8111]

Was the thing that killed the fish the first time around similar to what is happening now?

 

[texhorns98]

tim8111;337494 wrote: Was the thing that killed the fish the first time around similar to what is happening now?

Yep, except I lost my fireshrimp first the last time around which is odd because I don't THINK shrimp can get brooklynella. Other than that, it's almost exactly the same. After the wipeout, the tank only had the skunk cleaner and the indestructible watchman in it for close to two months. Then came the new tank into which everything was transferred into and left to sit for a few weeks to make sure all was well. Then came the clowns, then a month later came the PBT, then about a month after came the firefish.

 

[jennm]

FWIW, those watchman gobies are pretty tough, and IME, disease-resistant. I don't know if they can be carriers or not - but I've seen quite a few of them survive major disasters.

I had one that lived through my big Amyloodinium wipeout last year. Kept him several more months before selling him - and after the system was bleached/restarted he went back in - and the amy didn't come back so I don't think he was a carrier. Of course that was a different ailment.

Jenn