Calibrate your refractometer!!!!!!! - 1.030

Nishant3789;62312 wrote: i still dont understand, as jmaneypanda said, its not dually adjustable. if its off at the bottom and you fix it, and then you fix it at the top, thats going to throw off the bottom again. I guess thatd mean that its defected?

I think the way the claibration fluid works is that it is set to a certain specific gravity...say 1.023.....if you place a sample of that fluidon your refractometer that is what it should read.....

but yeah, I am still a little confused because as Nishant says....once you turn that screw in one direction or the other it's changing the calibration in both ways....right??????
 
Nishant3789;62312 wrote: i still dont understand, as jmaneypanda said, its not dually adjustable. if its off at the bottom and you fix it, and then you fix it at the top, thats going to throw off the bottom again. I guess thatd mean that its defected?
The original point I made was measuring closer to your target is better so buying the calibration solution is a good way to check your refractometer is reading what it is supposed to be reading. Panda went into this strange arguement about double checking both ends... blah... blah... blah. My point is that if the refractometer is set to 0 but has a faulty manufactoring it will read 0 just fine but may have an error at 1.025 of unknown proportion since you only measure it against one fluid at one value. If you measure it at 1.030 even if you are off, you won't be as off. If you measure it at 1.030 then 0 and both read correctly, you can be pretty much assured your refractometer will read anything between those fairly accurately at least more so than reading one number. A lot of people are ASSUMING that if 0 reads properly 1.025 will read properly as well... simply not true. You have no idea how far off the scale could be when taking only one measurement. The more calibrations you make espeically closer to the target the more accurate your measurement device is going to be.

You can argue it all day long, but I am right... period. You can make a descent point that you don't have to, but my point of accuracy still stands. Besides it is so cheap to make sure, why not be certain?
 
Jgoal55;62324 wrote: I think the way the claibration fluid works is that it is set to a certain specific gravity...say 1.023.....if you place a sample of that fluidon your refractometer that is what it should read.....

but yeah, I am still a little confused because as Nishant says....once you turn that screw in one direction or the other it's changing the calibration in both ways....right??????
Lets say the mirror is a little bent or the scale was printed incorrectly. You dial it to zero and when you compare your zero water it is fine, but given the example of the scale being off you could be reading 1.025 and your water could be 1.015. This probably isn't going to be a problem and virtually no chance with a high quality refractometer, but these cheap knock offs could easily suffer from a manufactoring defect. By dialing in your source so far below your target measurement you more easily allow for an incorrect reading. It isn't about a two point calibration. It is more about verifying the units scale is correct. Ten calibration readings is better than 5, 5 is better than 2 and 2 is better than 1. Also, calibrating to a known value very near or exactly where you want to keep your water is MUCH safer as every time you read it will be on the number you expect rather than a projected number from a scale.
 
yeah...thanks cam...makes sense as well....I thin k what panda was confused about as was I, was that brandon said something about a high end calibration and a low end calibration...I took that to mean we had to calibrate it at both ends...whereas really you could check both but once it's claibrated to one (preferably the solution) that's good enough....right???
 
I calibrate scales and other stuff all day so here is my $99 worth of awesomeness:
<span style="color: black;"></span>
<span style="color: black;">I'm not sure about refract meters but I know many instruments in labs are not always able to be calibrated and adjusted-like certain super accurate scale. When calibrating measurement equiptment, you have to calibrate it in a linear fashion, such as getting specific weights from NIST in .1g 1.000g 5.000g and so on. You can only adjust if the scale is linear, meaning it throws off the exact weight every time. So if it's off by .4g on the low end, then gone by .9g on the high end, you just throw the thing away and buy a new one.</span>
 
Jgoal55;62366 wrote: yeah...thanks cam...makes sense as well....I thin k what panda was confused about as was I, was that brandon said something about a high end calibration and a low end calibration...I took that to mean we had to calibrate it at both ends...whereas really you could check both but once it's claibrated to one (preferably the solution) that's good enough....right???



Sure, Blame it on me!!!! I get hell when I explain stuff too much because it is too much to read, then I get hell when I do not explain enough. I just can not win!!! :doh:
 
Xyzpdq0121;62407 wrote: Sure, Blame it on me!!!! I get hell when I explain stuff too much because it is too much to read, then I get hell when I do not explain enough. I just can not win!!! :doh:
Agreed... loser!
 
its always your fault Brandon....in fact I propse that anytime something goes wrong on the forum or in a tank....we all blame brandon....I know I have one vote with Cameron.
 
I have some Pinpoint Salinity Calibration Fluid.

I'm in Lawrenceville.
Drop by some time, and we'll calibrate it to 1.0264 on the dot.

I did the same thing to my tank. Ran it at 1.031 for a while until I learned that my cheapo refractometer couldn't be calibrated with RO water.
Everything survived.
 
I will admit to this- Cameron is right- there is no way to know if your refractometer is correct without checking both points. However, I am corect with this- no ifs and or buts- there is no way to more accurately calibrate your refractometer by using both. More accurately by using fluid alone- yes, potentially accuartely by using RODI- yes, but most accurately by using both- not possible, for the reasons stated previously.

If this isn't the issue, then I am barking up the wrong tree.:thumbs:
 
Yes Jeremy, you are right... My choice of words was not best. It is not like a PH pen where having two solution calabration is needed for different reference points and you can not adjust the two indapendent of eachother. Cameron knew what I was saying and that was, you better check your scale and make sure that it is reading correctly before you think that the maker in china put it together properly!
 
jmaneyapanda;62560 wrote: I will admit to this- Cameron is right- there is no way to know if your refractometer is correct without checking both points. However, I am corect with this- no ifs and or buts- there is no way to more accurately calibrate your refractometer by using both. More accurately by using fluid alone- yes, potentially accuartely by using RODI- yes, but most accurately by using both- not possible, for the reasons stated previously.
A refracotometer that has a manufactoring defect could read 1.050 and 0 perfectly and read 1.030 wrong. If that is the case, you will never get it to read 1.050 and 0 correctly if you dial it in to correctly read 1.030 as the scale will be off at the ends. However if you have a refractometer that couldn't read 1.030 properly and 0 properly without recalibrating I think it is probably best that you use a new refractometer even if it will still work if calibrated at 1.030 fairly well.

I am not sure if we agree or disagree at this point, but I know testing your refractometer at 1.030 is better than 0 and testing at both ends will likely tell you if your refractometer is reading properly at two points which can help identify a manufactoring defect.

BTW, my first refractometer was dead on at zero and .005 off at 1.025 after calibration. I could have dialed it in at 1.025 and continued to use it, but decided to get a new one instead that read properly on both ends.
 
Cameron;62571 wrote: A refracotometer that has a manufactoring defect could read 1.050 and 0 perfectly and read 1.030 wrong. If that is the case, you will never get it to read 1.050 and 0 correctly if you dial it in to correctly read 1.030 as the scale will be off at the ends. However if you have a refractometer that couldn't read 1.030 properly and 0 properly without recalibrating I think it is probably best that you use a new refractometer even if it will still work if calibrated at 1.030 fairly well.

I am not sure if we agree or disagree at this point, but I know testing your refractometer at 1.030 is better than 0 and testing at both ends will likely tell you if your refractometer is reading properly at two points which can help identify a manufactoring defect.

BTW, my first refractometer was dead on at zero and .005 off at 1.025 after calibration. I could have dialed it in at 1.025 and continued to use it, but decided to get a new one instead that read properly on both ends.

I think we are saying the same thing. Here is the end point of my statment- If you test your refractometer, and it is right at 0 and wrong at 1.030- there is nothing you can do about it. You now know it is wrong, and can maybe get a new one, but you cannot CALIBRATE it to correctness by jumping back and forth between 0 and 1.030 liquids. The calibration can just be set.
 
The refract isn't linear, I think a higher quality one would be be accurate and linear across the board from 0-1.050, but then the thing would cost $400+
 
Cameron;62571 wrote: BTW, my first refractometer was dead on at zero and .005 off at 1.025 after calibration. I could have dialed it in at 1.025 and continued to use it, but decided to get a new one instead that read properly on both ends.

So when your old refreactometer was calibrated with distilled or RO water, and the 1.030 calibration fluid tested, the refractometer indicated 1.025 or 1.035? It was that far off?
 
Dakota;62469 wrote: I have some Pinpoint Salinity Calibration Fluid.

I'm in Lawrenceville.
Drop by some time, and we'll calibrate it to 1.0264 on the dot.

I did the same thing to my tank. Ran it at 1.031 for a while until I learned that my cheapo refractometer couldn't be calibrated with RO water.
Everything survived.


Thanks for the offer....but i think next time i go over to Aquabuys I'll probably just get some calibration fluid......I meant to do it today but I forgot.....thats what I get for not making a fish stuff needed list......
 
Schwaggs;62636 wrote: So when your old refreactometer was calibrated with distilled or RO water, and the 1.030 calibration fluid tested, the refractometer indicated 1.025 or 1.035? It was that far off?
Pretty much. It read 1.025 when the water was really 1.030. The first clue was my hydrometer wasn't lining up, but I wrote that off to it being a hydrometer. Then I read a post where someone bought a cheap refractometer, properly calibrated at 0 and had a near .01 variance so I decided to check mine out against a borrowed one. Sure enough the hydrometer and borrowed refractometer were lining up. Next I bought some calibration fluid and a new refractometer. I got a correct reading on the new refractometer as well as the borrowed one so the original one was off. I calibrated the off one at 1.030, but distilled water was then reading .006 off which I though was a bit weird but I didn't really spend much time trying to figure it out.

Anyway, lesson learned... calibrate your refractometer against two known sources preferably at the range where you measure them at. This is only to verify the device is working properly... future calibrations can be done from one source.
 
Cameron;62962 wrote: Pretty much. It read 1.025 when the water was really 1.030. The first clue was my hydrometer wasn't lining up, but I wrote that off to it being a hydrometer. Then I read a post where someone bought a cheap refractometer, properly calibrated at 0 and had a near .01 variance so I decided to check mine out against a borrowed one. Sure enough the hydrometer and borrowed refractometer were lining up. Next I bought some calibration fluid and a new refractometer. I got a correct reading on the new refractometer as well as the borrowed one so the original one was off. I calibrated the off one at 1.030, but distilled water was then reading .006 off which I though was a bit weird but I didn't really spend much time trying to figure it out.

Anyway, lesson learned... calibrate your refractometer against two known sources preferably at the range where you measure them at. This is only to verify the device is working properly... future calibrations can be done from one source.


Ok, I know I am being nit-picky, but it is my nature. I am having difficulty with this because of the terminology. Can we agree to state to CONFIRM or VALIDATE your refarctometer against two sources? I agree and understand your exact point with this. Hwoever, my contention has always been that we cannot calibrate against two sources. Calibration means to coordinate or equate the tool against a reference. We arent doing this, are we? If we are, please tell me how, because I dont understand.
Again, not trying to be nit picky, but just trying to understand.
 
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