cant keep alk up

[umbrellacorp]

im having problems keeping my alkalinity up. its almost always between 180-200. The most i have ever seen it was at 202. If it gets below 180 i buffer and the next day it will be up to about 190. Then stay around there for a few days and then go back down. Any suggestions or reasons why this is happening? I use the hanna alkalinity checker, so i know my testing is correct. Thanks guys.

 

[jimknutson]

Are you talking about calcium? If not then you are way over in alk. And I mean way over. Alk and calc work together so if you are dosing 2 part you would only need one part. Use the bed calculator to see how much you need to add.

 

[umbrellacorp]

My calcium is like 240 on a good day, ive dosed per directions on the bottle but it just wont go up. Im wondering if my skimmer is pulling out the chemicals. I have an alkalinity checker and a calcium test kit. Alk should be 180-300 according to kit. Calcium should be 400 or a little above according to kit and neither will raise.


Sent from my iPhone4s via Tapatalk

 

[ripped tide]

Sounds like you have some pretty serious imbalances. You only have soft coral, right? Trash your halemeda. It sucks up calcium and provides no real benefit to the aquarium other than aesthetics. Research ionic balances. The level of your alk, ca, and mg all have a role to play in keeping your tank stable. If one of them is not right, there is a good chance none of them will be right best bet is a big h2o chnge

 

[dme330i]

UmbrellaCorp;717117 wrote: im having problems keeping my alkalinity up. its almost always between 180-200. The most i have ever seen it was at 202. If it gets below 180 i buffer and the next day it will be up to about 190. Then stay around there for a few days and then go back down. Any suggestions or reasons why this is happening? I use the hanna alkalinity checker, so i know my testing is correct. Thanks guys.

What's your target? I keep my tanks at 140 - 150 ppm (middle of the range or around 8 dKH or 2.9 meq/l). 180 - 200 is high in my opinion and just causes additional and unnecessary precipitation in pipes, pumps, etc.

Edit:

UmbrellaCorp;717121 wrote: Alk should be 180-300 according to kit.

Double-check this. If your colorimeter is measuring in ppm, then this range is way off.

 

[jead85]

Which test kit are you using? Hopefully not API

 

[dakota9]

:doh:

Why in the world are you dosing 2 part anyway?

You have a 36g tank with softies and LPS, dosing really only needs to be considered for large tanks, or heavy SPS tanks. Yours is neither......

You also have a cyno issue going concurrently!

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:



You are complicating the issue by dosing, which you really don't need!!!


Throw out, give away, sell or store your two part additives, you don't need them right now, not with this tank.

Do a weekly 25% waterchange until you get yourself back into ionic balance. Use a good quality reef salt, and vacuum your substrate as best you can during these waterchanges... If you're careful to match the temp and SG of your new water with your tank water each time, you can do waterchanges a bit more frequently to help speed the recovery, still sticking to 25% each waterchange.

Continue to monitor with tests and a month from now, your nitrates, calcium cyno, and low alk should be well on the way to improving if not completely better.

 

[rdnelson]

Couldn't agree more. I live by the "KISS" method. Why? Because I am stupid so keeping it simple is a BIG plus.

Dakota9;717146 wrote: :doh:

Why in the world are you dosing 2 part anyway?

You have a 36g tank with softies and LPS, dosing really only needs to be considered for large tanks, or heavy SPS tanks. Yours is neither......

You also have a cyno issue going concurrently!

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:



You are complicating the issue by dosing, which you really don't need!!!


Throw out, give away, sell or store your two part additives, you don't need them right now, not with this tank.

Do a weekly 25% waterchange until you get yourself back into ionic balance. Use a good quality reef salt, and vacuum your substrate as best you can during these waterchanges... If you're careful to match the temp and SG of your new water with your tank water each time, you can do waterchanges a bit more frequently to help speed the recovery, still sticking to 25% each waterchange.

Continue to monitor with tests and a month from now, your nitrates, calcium cyno, and low alk should be well on the way to improving if not completely better.

 

[heyitsmirix3]

Why would u want all in the 13-16 range??? 9 is fine

 

[ichthyoid]

To the OP-

Here is a great article by a hobbyist, who also happens to be a PhD Chemist. It is well written (IMHO) and has helped more people than I can remember in this hobby (self included). Read it carefully, for comprehension, and ask questions if needed.

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;717380 wrote: To the OP-

Here is a great article by a hobbyist, who also happens to be a PhD Chemist. It is well written (IMHO) and has helped more people than I can remember in this hobby (self included). Read it carefully, for comprehension, and ask questions if needed.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry</a>[/QUOTE]
:up::up::up::up:
One of the best articles for the hobbyist.
Good post.

 

[dakota9]

Gosh.... What a Biotch!



Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, didn't mean to get preachy.


When I got my first big tank, and needed to keep everything in check ( Alk Cal, Ph) it felt like that game "Whack-a-Mole", get one problem whipped, and another pops up, fix that, and then another, just to eventually have the same problem again that started it all.

I skimmed the article Bill linked above, it is very good! I think you'll enjoy it, as it draws several congruities to your current situation.....


I've been in this hobby 26 years and learning never stops, or shouldn't anyway....

Dakota9;717146 wrote: :doh:

Why in the world are you dosing 2 part anyway?

You have a 36g tank with softies and LPS, dosing really only needs to be considered for large tanks, or heavy SPS tanks. Yours is neither......

You also have a cyno issue going concurrently!

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:



You are complicating the issue by dosing, which you really don't need!!!


Throw out, give away, sell or store your two part additives, you don't need them right now, not with this tank.

Do a weekly 25% waterchange until you get yourself back into ionic balance. Use a good quality reef salt, and vacuum your substrate as best you can during these waterchanges... If you're careful to match the temp and SG of your new water with your tank water each time, you can do waterchanges a bit more frequently to help speed the recovery, still sticking to 25% each waterchange.

Continue to monitor with tests and a month from now, your nitrates, calcium cyno, and low alk should be well on the way to improving if not completely better.

 

[ripped tide]

^^^ was that originally written before morning coffee??

 

[umbrellacorp]

sorry.. im just doing what im told at the LFS.. ive never had to worry about calcium or alk before so im new to it. Ive been keeping SWF on and off for 15 years, but never really got into corals. When i got the bubble coral it looked awful for several days, the other corals ive had, have opened up and looked fine within a day. Thats when i had the LFS check and tell me i needed to get my calcium up.
I did a big WC and dosed calcium a couple times and it looks great now... espicially when i first turn the lights on. It looks amazing for the majority of the day but by the end of the day it starts looking bad again. I havent dosed calcium since those two times since the corals look fine. Last time it was checked at LFS it was still at around 240-260. I wont dose anymore. Everything is perfect *knock on wood* except the calcium levels (according to LFS), and my nitrates. The issue with the alk i was just curious about.. i will keep an eye on the alk, in the mean time my main priority is getting my nitrates back down.

-

As far as the halimeda goes im already in the process of getting rid of it. i like it but its spreading way too much. I cant pull out a bunch at once because the roots are so deep it clouds the tank with sand.. so im only pulling out a little at a time.

-

I can do a 25% change a week on a 36g tank? i was told by two stores i should only do a 10% change a week. - and that the problem. I do the 10% and the nitrates go down a little, but by the time the week has rolled around and it time for another change they are back up to where they were before. So i can safely do a 25% change a week until my nitrates are back to normal?

Yesterday i added an in tank fluval u3 with just the carbon filters and poly filters to help out with some more flow and cleaning. Hopefully it will help. It seems like a total piece of junk, but i wanted something else to help bring down the nitrates.

thank you all for your suggestions. My new WC is due on thurs, so i will definitely do a 25%. thanks!

 

[wbrown]

quit letting the tail wag the dog. You keep dosing this to cure one thing, another thing happens as a result, rinse-repeat until you've killed your stuff.
if you have a QT tank, yank your expensive stuff and place in it while you goof with the big one.
2 part is great, in the right circumstances.. if you have cyano then you should only be doing water changes and changing your light period, maybe adding GFO until you control that. Treating numerous things at once only leads to expensive coral skeletons.
I have a couple hundred pounds of those if you just want some.

 

[dakota9]

Ripped Tide;717392 wrote: ^^^ was that originally written before morning coffee??

It was actually written while I was at the ex's house cleaning out the garage and planning for the movers to come this week.... That explains some I suppose....

UmbrellaCorp;717423 wrote: sorry.. im just doing what im told at the LFS.. ive never had to worry about calcium or alk before so im new to it. Ive been keeping SWF on and off for 15 years, but never really got into corals. When i got the bubble coral it looked awful for several days, the other corals ive had, have opened up and looked fine within a day. Thats when i had the LFS check and tell me i needed to get my calcium up.
I did a big WC and dosed calcium a couple times and it looks great now... espicially when i first turn the lights on. It looks amazing for the majority of the day but by the end of the day it starts looking bad again. I havent dosed calcium since those two times since the corals look fine. Last time it was checked at LFS it was still at around 240-260. I wont dose anymore. Everything is perfect *knock on wood* except the calcium levels (according to LFS), and my nitrates. The issue with the alk i was just curious about.. i will keep an eye on the alk, in the mean time my main priority is getting my nitrates back down.

-

As far as the halimeda goes im already in the process of getting rid of it. i like it but its spreading way too much. I cant pull out a bunch at once because the roots are so deep it clouds the tank with sand.. so im only pulling out a little at a time.

-

I can do a 25% change a week on a 36g tank? i was told by two stores i should only do a 10% change a week. - and that the problem. I do the 10% and the nitrates go down a little, but by the time the week has rolled around and it time for another change they are back up to where they were before. So i can safely do a 25% change a week until my nitrates are back to normal?

Yesterday i added an in tank fluval u3 with just the carbon filters and poly filters to help out with some more flow and cleaning. Hopefully it will help. It seems like a total piece of junk, but i wanted something else to help bring down the nitrates.

thank you all for your suggestions. My new WC is due on thurs, so i will definitely do a 25%. thanks!

Bubble Coral is notoriously temperamental when it's moved, I draw this from my few experiences with it. They always will need more time to adjust than softies (which will sometimes extend polyps while they are still in the bag). I'd almost say that bubble Coral need the most time to adjust.

A 25% waterchange is OK pretty much anytime, in fact, I can't, off the top of my head, think of a situation where it would be bad. ( I think if I were a coral, 10% would be just enough to p*ss me off).... Use a quality reef salt for the highest level of calcium.

Good luck, and moving forward, I'm not certain I'd blindly follow the advice of the LFS that told you to do 10% WCs and dose two-part

 

[rdnelson]

Please feel free to correct me guys if I am am wrong here but......

From all I have read, small water changes done more frequently are a better way of getting nitrates undercontrol. It would also help to restore depleted elements. As said, in that small of a tank, you shouldn't need to supplement anything more than what is in the salt mix.

If I were in your shoes, I would stop any dosing or changes to my tank but I would do 10% water change each day or every two days. This will change the chemistry in small increments but yet over the course of 7 days you have done a 70% water change basically.

BTW, that article was great. I have read ones like that before that didn't really sink in. I don't know if it was the way it was written or I just finally saw the light but it makes much better sense to me now.

 

[dakota9]

rdnelson99;717429 wrote: Please feel free to correct me guys if I am am wrong here but......

From all I have read, small water changes done more frequently are a better way of getting nitrates undercontrol. It would also help to restore depleted elements. As said, in that small of a tank, you shouldn't need to supplement anything more than what is in the salt mix.

If I were in your shoes, I would stop any dosing or changes to my tank but I would do 10% water change each day or every two days. This will change the chemistry in small increments but yet over the course of 7 days you have done a 70% water change basically.

BTW, that article was great. I have read ones like that before that didn't really sink in. I don't know if it was the way it was written or I just finally saw the light but it makes much better sense to me now.

That's just crazy talk!

Seriously, that would be great, but 10% a day is more than I have time for.... It's probably a good plan to get a tank in balance, but I try to stress my fish out as little as possible and vacuuming daily would probly lead my fish to think that my hand was a tank mate.......

Which isn't a far stretch since they already think the turkey baster is the pizza man (it's what I use to feed the tank).

 

[rdnelson]

LOL on the Pizza Man.

Don't have to vacuum the sand everyday. Just drain off some water either from the display or from the sump if you have one. Yes, it would be time consuming but I bet in a weeks time it would be back in line and then you could go back to once a week WC. I just think that adding this and then adding that and then adding....... is going to end up eating up more time and things will get real crazy in the tank. But, that is JMO.

Dakota9;717432 wrote: That's just crazy talk!

Seriously, that would be great, but 10% a day is more than I have time for.... It's probably a good plan to get a tank in balance, but I try to stress my fish out as little as possible and vacuuming daily would probly lead my fish to think that my hand was a tank mate.......

Which isn't a far stretch since they already think the turkey baster is the pizza man (it's what I use to feed the tank).

 

[dakota9]

I suppose 10% a day would work well for the first week to get things back in line. Siphoning from the top or sump daily would help the OP's calcium/Alk level, but do little for the cyno.....

I'll remember to try this if I ever reach a point where it's warranted, but I know time is at a premium for mst of us.....