Chinese knockoffs

[grouper therapy]

jmaneyapanda;773779 wrote: What company are you accusing of illegally and unethically outsourcing to china? As it pertains to this thread- ecotech? If so, I'd like to see one shred of proof.

None. I was referencing illegal action by the Chinese company not US. I realize that it is legal for US companies to out source from china and even ethical according to some. I don't know if Eco tech does it or not and really don't care. If they do then no one should be surprised when their technology is stolen by a Chinese company that is fueled by an economy that they(the Us co.) supported if they did outsource from China. This whole discussion has been based around a big if anyway. No one is arguing the legality of either side.
Eco tech Rules!!!

 

[skriz]

grouper therapy;773733 wrote: I think what bruce1 is saying is not that he condones it but if anyone (not just ecotech) does business with unscrupulous people you get what you deserve when they treat you by their set of scruples. If us manufacturers are willing to compromise for their own set of reasons and outsource these components from China then why is not equally just for the consumer to do it for their own reasons.? It really is a never ending spiraling downward helix.

Sure; it's a gamble and sometimes you get stung. But bruce1 keeps going on about it being legal in China which is 100% wrong. He also infers that the lack of enforcement makes it legal; again, 100% wrong. The "logic" keeps getting more and more absurd. You would think most people would base their statements in fact. Instead, I have to spell it out for them.

 

[grouper therapy]

Yea I don't think it is legal at all regardless of enforcement. But if they are not going to enforce any better than they do it I would view it as legal when I decided whether or not support that economy. Even then because of the balance of trade it is almost impossible to compete and remain 100% domestic in buying. Right now my customers are wanting qaulity and are willing to pay for it , if they weren't I would have to start using import plywood ( yea it is here).

 

[bruce 1]

Skirtz if there is no punishment for copying it. Well it must be Ok to do so. (For them) You do not get anything I have said about it. Use your computer to look it up infomation is free on there.

 

[grouper therapy]

grouper therapy;773833 wrote: Yea I don't think it is legal at all regardless of enforcement. But if they are not going to enforce any better than they do it I would view it as legal when I decided whether or not support that economy. Even then because of the imbalance of trade it is almost impossible to compete and remain 100% domestic in buying. Right now my customers are wanting qaulity and are willing to pay for it , if they weren't I would have to start using import plywood ( yea it is here).

Edit

Edit: I'm like you Raj in the aspect I look for either features and/or quality in most of my purchases. Price is a concern but does not supersede the other two.

 

[skriz]

bruce 1;773849 wrote: Skirtz if there is no punishment for copying it. Well it must be Ok to do so. (For them) You do not get anything I have said about it. Use your computer to look it up infomation is free on there.

You're either oblivious to the facts or incapable of processing them. The lack of punishment does not equate legality, period.

 

[dawgface]

bruce 1;773849 wrote: Skirtz if there is no punishment for copying it. Well it must be Ok to do so. (For them) You do not get anything I have said about it. Use your computer to look it up infomation is free on there.

I don't think it's just Skriz, I'm fairly confident no one understands what you are trying to say. At the very least you have got to understand that your failure to articulate your meaning makes it extremely difficult for others to try to do it for you.

 

[linhtran]

Say no to china products.

 

[Jaycen B.]

LinhTran;773943 wrote: Say no to china products.

:up: Best post yet!!

 

[patrick]

As someone who has been all over the world and lived in another country (Japan), i understand that we live in a global economy. Having alliegiance to only buying USA regardless of the quality is absurd. Also, thinking that we are the only country that can make a quality product is just narrow mindedness at its best. I love my country and served it well for 22 years in the military. Nowhere else I'd rather live except maybe somewhere in the SOuth Pacific.....for the weather. There is nothing wrong with a product from China if it is quality product. Not buying something because it is from China is silly.

That said, buying something form any company no matter where they make something is worse if they are ripping off someone else's idea without compensating them. Especially if it will cause that company to stop being innovative. If there is a copyright infringement whether technically legal or just morally.....then I'd pass and buy from the company that keeps the hobby moving forward....ethically.

 

[saltwaterhippy]

Wow after reading all this I'm debating just canceling my membership and calling it a loss. It is clear that very few if any of you have any idea about patents and or major corporations. Ecotech was perfectly aware that when they made there product public there would be a chinese company right there wanting to reverse engineer that product. I'm sure losses were built in the projections for this product and ecotech will not be affected negatively by any of this. As far as patents go, it is possible to get a foreign patent that protects you from companies over seas from stealing your ideas. FYI, you only have to change 30% of a design to get around a patent. So if the Chinese changed the motor type and the bearings or things like that it is perfectly legal even here in the US. As someone who has been through the patent process and the R&D of numerous products you always find better ways to either manufacture a product or products to use in construction of the product ie different types of plastics and bearings that were not thought of during the patent process. Changing those things alone may be enough to get around a patent. There is nothing wrong with taking an idea and making it better, or just doing it a little different. If ecotech was smart they would have taken the product to china to get a cheaper knockoff made so now they are not losing sales to another company but they are gaining customers because now more people can afford the technology.

 

[dawgface]

Saltwaterhippy;782884 wrote: Wow after reading all this I'm debating just canceling my membership and calling it a loss. It is clear that very few if any of you have any idea about patents and or major corporations. Ecotech was perfectly aware that when they made there product public there would be a chinese company right there wanting to reverse engineer that product. I'm sure losses were built in the projections for this product and ecotech will not be affected negatively by any of this. As far as patents go, it is possible to get a foreign patent that protects you from companies over seas from stealing your ideas. FYI, you only have to change 30% of a design to get around a patent. So if the Chinese changed the motor type and the bearings or things like that it is perfectly legal even here in the US. As someone who has been through the patent process and the R&D of numerous products you always find better ways to either manufacture a product or products to use in construction of the product ie different types of plastics and bearings that were not thought of during the patent process. Changing those things alone may be enough to get around a patent. There is nothing wrong with taking an idea and making it better, or just doing it a little different. If ecotech was smart they would have taken the product to china to get a cheaper knockoff made so now they are not losing sales to another company but they are gaining customers because now more people can afford the technology.

For reviving this, I support that which is BOLD.

 

[falos]

Lol dawgface you beat me to it

 

[saltwaterhippy]

I'm new to forums so I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[saltwaterhippy]

O lol. I saw it that time. Funny SA.

 

[saltwaterhippy]

I apologize I didn't mean to bring back bad memories or bad blood. I was just reading through some old forums and thought this one was incredibly stupid. Who cares if the guy wants the knock offs? There are tons of people on here who are going to try them as well.

 

[frantz]

SWHippy, Welcome to the ARC Forums, as a general rule of forum (any forum i've been a part of, not just ARC) protocol, it's considered bad taste to bring up any thread, good bad or indifferent that has passed it's normal life. On an active forum like this one, if a post hasn't been discussed in a week or so it can typically be considered dead. We obviously aren't trying to censor so we can leave them up, but the idea is once the OP has abandoned the thread it's purpose has been extinguished. This is normal unspoken rules on most forums you'll find on the internet FYI. This is more so the case such as here where it obviously was a very divided topic. So if you'll pick up a shovel we can rebury this one for the archives!

 

[grouper therapy]

Saltwaterhippy;782928 wrote: I apologize I didn't mean to bring back bad memories or bad blood. I was just reading through some old forums and thought this one was incredibly stupid. Who cares if the guy wants the knock offs? There are tons of people on here who are going to try them as well.

I'm not sure what the unsaid protocol is on public forums but if you would like to discuss the topic in another thread (not sure why it has to be there) please feel free to start that thread. Divided topics make for interesting discussions IMO. Some view them as drama usually due to their having nothing constructive to add. By all mean please feel free to discuss what you wish if it does not violate forum rules. Those who do not care to have a respectful and dignified discussion of the matter can very simply refrain from clicking on that thread. Welcome by the way.

 

[tony_caliente]

I picked this up way at the end and did not read all of the thread. Here's a fact, and I am just stating a fact.
In May the US xxported (sold) $183 billion in goods and services (mostly goods). Apparently, we need a market for our goods outside of the US to "sustain" our economy. If the US didn't buy foreign products (which we did in May to the tune of $231 billion), foreign countries may not have the money to buy US goods. The majority of good sold in discount and big box stores are made in foreign countries. These retailers create millions of jobs - albeit entry level jobs, but still jobs. The foreign cars we buy are serviced by American techs in the US and the tangled web of this trade-off goes on and on. I used to think how nice it would be for trucks not to be on the road until I realized that almost everything I own was delivered by a truck. Funny...when the whole picture is seen. I may read the rest of the therad...seems like a healthy discussion.

 

[jusney]

It has been truly amazing to follow this debate. I would suggest that there are many economic as well as sociological factors at play here and until they change, that is, if they ever do, this type of "business" will continue.

1. American's insatiable appetite for "stuff" will only perpetuate a consumerist mentality.
2. A consumerist mentality increases demands beyond "normal" supply capabilities.
3. The combined effects of a capitalist ideology and increased demands for "stuff" are cheap goods, high turnover rates, and cheap labor.

The combination of these factors produce a potent concoction that has been swallowed by business people resulting in unethical business practices. Some will argue that it is not unethical, but when it is your hard work that has been stolen, I am sure you will sing a different tune. Then again, the fact that we can argue if certain act are unethical implies the absence of intrinsic guides indicative a moral framework; this will only serve to open a whole new can of worms. Unfortunately, no one like dealing with root causes, we like covering cancers with "Band-Aids."