Most phosphate should be bound to the surfaces of the rock, assuming that’s what you are mostly looking to get rid of? So, the theory is, using citric acid to make phosphate soluble shouldn’t take long. I’m not going any longer than that to begin. I’ll then rinse in DI a few times, then soak overnight. The next day I’ll measure for phosphate, probably using a Hanna ppb (ultra low) version.
Cooking Rocks - When Are They Done?
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That was my thoughts as well and yes I'm just trying to remove the phosphates. Thx for the help!
Wish I wold have seen this thread earlier. I am wrapping up a 10 day bleach soak.
To those that went citric acid, is there any advantage to that versus a long bleach soak?
To those that went citric acid, is there any advantage to that versus a long bleach soak?
Fwiw, algae & Cyanobacteria can remain viable, even dried, out for various amounts of time. Something like bleaching, which destroys the cells, is one way to be sure previously used live rock is sterile. Bleach kills parasites, viruses and bacteria as well.
link.springer.com
Survival of blue-green and green algae under stress conditions - Folia Microbiologica
Terrestrial blue-green algaeScytonema millei, Phormidium bohneri andLyngbya mesotricha survived to 100 % at atmospheric temperatures of 5–36 °C and relative humidity 55–100 % in rainy, winter and spring seasons but the survival was 15–25 % in summer when atmospheric temperature reached 48 °C and...
link.springer.com
Would tap water be okay? I am using a commercial dechlorinator and figured I could save the RODI water and just use tap for the dechlorination soak.
For those that may be following:
I’m using MarcoRocks, which is very old ‘fossile’ coral skeletons, mined from quarries where reefs were thousands of years ago. I’m not too worried about much being alive in it. At least nothing that’s likely to harm marine organisms. My only concern would be residual phosphate bound to it, which is normally very insoluble. That’s where the citric acid comes in and greatly increases the solubility of bound phosphate.
The citric acid, is a weak organic acid and works due to it’s unique chemical structure to make phosphate soluble. Don’t think of this in terms of a strong acid which rapidly dissolves the rock. While you will see some bubbling this method is much more elegant.
If I were using previously used ‘live’ rock, I would bleach it first. Then use a dechlorinator and then citric acid last.
I’m using MarcoRocks, which is very old ‘fossile’ coral skeletons, mined from quarries where reefs were thousands of years ago. I’m not too worried about much being alive in it. At least nothing that’s likely to harm marine organisms. My only concern would be residual phosphate bound to it, which is normally very insoluble. That’s where the citric acid comes in and greatly increases the solubility of bound phosphate.
The citric acid, is a weak organic acid and works due to it’s unique chemical structure to make phosphate soluble. Don’t think of this in terms of a strong acid which rapidly dissolves the rock. While you will see some bubbling this method is much more elegant.
If I were using previously used ‘live’ rock, I would bleach it first. Then use a dechlorinator and then citric acid last.
Using tap water to rinse shouldn’t harm anything. As long as you use a dechlorinator at the final rinse. Personally, I’d still use a DI soak, but I also have a high rate DI & no RO water filter system. So not as limited on water production, like an RO/DI system is.
The acid bath should be last after a bleach soak for a week or more. I take things further with a peroxide bath then bleach and finally the acid.
All of my rock has been in systems before. Marco and all. That's why I took those steps. Freshly mined, unused, Marco should be fine with just the acid bath. I would only soak that rock for a half hour in 5%. I think the limestone that Marco is made of breaks down faster than actual coral skeleton and ocean reef rock.
This is what the rock looked like after 2 hours in citric acid.
I dont have much pressure from the little circulation pump i tossed in the ro/di tank and it wasn't removing all the sediment left on the rock so I had to hose it down with tap water first then rinse with ro/di.
Any idea what kind of rock this is. Some pieces look like real coral and others ocean rock. The person I got it from said it was old and couldn't be gotten any longer.
I dont have much pressure from the little circulation pump i tossed in the ro/di tank and it wasn't removing all the sediment left on the rock so I had to hose it down with tap water first then rinse with ro/di.
Any idea what kind of rock this is. Some pieces look like real coral and others ocean rock. The person I got it from said it was old and couldn't be gotten any longer.
This is a great post! I’m also working on some rock for my next build. I wanted to know more details about the peroxide bath @Adam can you please let me know what was the peroxide concentration? Where can I get peroxide by large quantities? Is there any reason to do peroxide first and bleach after?
Also do you know if peroxide/bleach eats aquarium silicone?
Also do you know if peroxide/bleach eats aquarium silicone?
MarcoRocks is mined from coral reef formed when the sea level was higher in south Florida. It’s pretty much the same as other reef rock, just older.
I think the time in the ground under pressure and possibly more interaction with fresh water changes it to more of a limestone. The exact mineral makeup? I don't know.
I can tell you the Marco rock most definitely reacts different with the acid than Pukani, Figi, Tonga, and any man made rock. It has a much higher rate of disintegration.
I'm using Sodium Percarbonate to make the peroxide bath. It's basically Oxiclean without any of the additives. Bleach does break down fibrous cell structures but it takes quite a long time. What it tends to do in the baths we do is just bleach algae white but leaves a good bit behind. Peroxide actively breaks the cell structure and disintegrates organic material. I learned the trick in a filter sock cleaning thread on R2R. I mixed the bath up to about 6-9%, so pretty strong, then soaked for several days till the bubbling stopped. After good a rinse I followed up with a week bleach bath and there is nothing left but the rock. Finally a citric acid bath to remove bound phosphate in the surface of the rock.
Again if this is brand new Marco rock there no need to do anything but a half hour to 45 minute acid bath. But for rock that's been in a system this is the way to go.
I ended up doing a citric acid bath, then cured in a bucket for two weeks. They’ve been in my sump since then and I haven’t noticed any phosphate spikes.
I’m about to remove all the plague corals out of my DT and redo the aquascape, so I may get started on pressing the nuclear button on some fresh rock.
I’m about to remove all the plague corals out of my DT and redo the aquascape, so I may get started on pressing the nuclear button on some fresh rock.
Thanks for the link, got it on order. Curious: why a week soak in bleach?
Bleach starts to lose it's effectiveness after 24 hours and more rapidly if the solution is exposed to light.
Yep, it does. Every few days I add a little more. The 150 gallon trough is under my deck and never gets any sun. I'm also using pool chlorine instead of grocery store bleach. The liquid pool chlorine is 10% Sodium Hyperchlorite which is 4-5% stronger than store bought. Also the stuff you get at the store is always less than a gallon and the pool chlorine is actually less expensive.
