dosing like crazy and CA still LOW

IamRit;347769 wrote: What really concerned me about your situation is that you mentioned your calcium keep dropping fast. You don't have that many sps to give a good reason to drop. I would try to pinpoint the caused of the dropped in cal if I were you.
Were you adding any type of additives to your system when you start having the dropped in cal?
Once I got my dkh above 8-9, I quit dosing buffers. Simply top off water until I tested and found the Ca was low. Tank had zero additives for 4 weeks, excluding phytoplankton spot-fed to some corals, and some Brightwell Restore also spot-fed.
Post Ca overdose, the tank took several weeks to register less than 500 with the Salifert test, levelled around 460ppm, then suddenly fell to 250-300 in a weeks' time. At this point (7-8 days ago) I started dosing for Ca in reccomended amounts with little change, then doubled up the dosage and finally got it up to current level.
Something caused it, still not 100% certain what.
 
Hopefully everything settles to balance out and end your coral shedding madness. You aren't changing too much water too quickly ya think?
 
Smoothie;353028 wrote: Hopefully everything settles to balance out and end your coral shedding madness. You aren't changing too much water too quickly ya think?
I hope not, but at this point in time anything that survives is free.
Just did another 32 gallon change, So far I've changed the entire volume one and a half times...
 
too many cooks.

High alkainity will always reduce calcium levels in amounts that bring the supersaturatin quotient back to levels that the conditions in the water column will support. Tis mean equal amounts of both calcium an alkalinity in terms of their solubility, adequat Mg++, adequzte amounts of all the other conservative ion in seawater, full strength seawater, and shooting for calcium and alkalinity numbers that are appropriate to start with. ATO to maointain salinity beteen top offs will help a lot., especially if you are close to suersaturatin due to inequzity of one ion (i.e., if alk is 15 at S=32, and yur increase your salinity to 35 by letting evaportion occur, then you've just increased the concentration by 91% of all conservative elements. thi means that if you wer close to supersaturation, thn yu may have exceeded it during theperiod f evaportion. Thi wuld represent an increase in alk of 15 to16.5dKH in our example. At this high7er lk, calcium would precipitate and drp both levels of alk and calcium untili conditions were reetbished below the max solubiity again.

Alk is NOT equAl TO Ph. EX IGH OR LOW Ph IN PLAIN WATER IS OFTEN A RESULT OF co2 CONCENTRATIN, O BUFFERING THE WATER THINKING IT WI CRRECT THE h I NOT NLY UNNECESSARY (CORRECT Ph BY CIRCULATING TE WATER WITH A GOOD OUTDOORAIR SOURCE FOR 24 URS)
 
please remove both this post and the partial post above, this was raw info that I could not edit during a thunderstorm.

I will post the entire post beow.
 
too many cooks.

High alkalinity will always reduce calcium levels in amounts that bring the supersaturation quotient back to levels that the conditions in the water column will support. This mean equal amounts of both calcium an alkalinity in terms of their solubility, adequate Mg++, adequate amounts of all the other conservative ion in seawater, full strength seawater, and shooting for calcium and alkalinity numbers that are appropriate to start with. ATO to maintain salinity between top offs will help a lot., especially if you are close to supersaturation due to inequality of one ion (i.e., if alk is 15 at S=32, and you increase your salinity to 35 by letting evaporation occur, then you've just increased the concentration by 9% of all conservative elements. This means that if you were close to supersaturation, then you may have exceeded it during the period of evaporation. This would represent an increase in alk of 15 to 16.5dKH in our example. At this higher alk, calcium would precipitate and drop both levels of alk and calcium until conditions were reestablished below the max solubility again.

Increasing alk is not necessarily equal to increasing pH. Adding a buffer to a barrel of RO/DI will change as the true driver of ph dissipates. It is the CO2 in the mains water that drives pH down, and in areas where the water is hard (high levels of dissolved CaCO3), the calcium carbonate tends to quickly exhaust the filters in RO/DI, esp. the DI section. At this point, the CO3 is converted to OH- as the pressure drops in the line and the CO3--->CO2. The extra CO2 degasses from the solution, leaving a relatively higher pH water behind. If allowed to circulate for 24 hours, even this will tend to dissipate, and the pH will tend to stabilize in that period.

Suggestions at this point:<ul>
<li>DO NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR RO/DI, except salt mix for water changes</li>
<li>Collect your RO/DI 24 hours prior to your intended use and circulate in for 24 hours with exposure to outdoor air.</li>
<li>Brute trashcans on wheels: need I say more?</li>
<li>Set up an ATO device</li>
<li>Raise your Salinity to 35 PPT</li>
<li>Set your tank temp at 78<sup>o</sup>F. 2 degrees can make a big difference if you’re near supersaturation, and unlike sugar, calcium carbonate dissolves better at lower temps.</li>
<li>Perform a 50% water change now, repeat this again in a week. This will not only reestablish you conservative proportionality, but fix issues with imbalance of your calcium and bicarbonate/carbonate.</li>
<li>Consider adding kalkwasser to your ATO when you need a boost for your hermatypic supplements and get away from 2-part additives. Kalk = pickling lime and is ~$3 USD/lb at Wal-Mart. To teaspoons per gallon of RO/DI will go a long way and is a balanced additive.</li>
<li>Get a Pinpoint pH probe and some good (Salifert) calcium and Mg++ test kits</li>
<li>Buying a refractometer would be good if you don't already have one.</li>
<li>Get two in-line probes for TDS for your RO/DI. Place them at the output for the RO membrane (to watch for exhaustion of the membrane) ad at the final outlet for the DI columns (to watch for DI exhaustion).</li>
<li>Consider shopping for a CO2-driven calcium reactor, a pH controller, and a 20lb tank with a regulator. It is expensive to get initially, but cheap to run and doe the best job when adjusted correctly for large tanks with heavy hermatypic growth.</li>
</ul>

Adding buffer to water made acidic by dissolved CO2 will be a problem when the CO2 dissipates, as the acid will then be gone, but the buffering effect will still be there, tending to drive the pH to the high side and precipitate your calcium (both due to high pH and high buffer level). This makes addition of buffer not only wasteful and unnecessary, but derogatory to your calcium levels.

There is no need to add anything to your RO/DI water, if you live where the water is hard, it will help neutralize issues with organic acids. The buffer in your salt mix would correct for issues with pH, but you really do not have a problem if you circulate the water prior to use. I have more, but the thunderstorms here keep taking out my satellite service.


HTH
 
Thanks Tom.
I've changed water to the tune of about 200G total over a couple days. Params are back where I want and expect them. Many corals re-inflated and extended, and the RTN stopped transferring from piece to piece. What was damaged is damaged, what died is dead, but no further evidence of continuing RTN.
I haven't updated in a while, but I replumbed my mixing area. I now decant my water into a barrel prior to transferring to my mix tank. I'm using the decanted water for top off, and have piping in place for the ATO which I am working to install.
ATM I am still adding top off throughout the day, but at least I'm using freshwater that reads 7 or better ph, so it's not shocking the tank.
I now have several pinpoint monitors at different areas, decanting tank, mixing tank, and each of the two DT's.
I pretty well learned the lesson that the only thing that happens to a reef tank in a hurry is bad. No more dosing unless and until I know exactly whats needed and how/when to dose.
 
Did some testing of my water to discover the base rock I purchased was leaching metals into the water.. Some of the rock had what appeared to be rust stains.
Swapped with a local for some new to me liverock and corals, and on his advice I raised the salt level in the tank.
5 days on, and everything looks a LOT better, even a blasto that I'd written off is making a comeback. Going to wait another week or so, and see if the sps frags continue to do well before placing the larger pieces back in.
I have to go back to the lfs I got the base rock from and see if they will do an exchange, I hope they did not knowingly sell subpar rock.
 
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