Elaborate Plumbing Project

Fish Scales2;593516 wrote: The flex watt would not need to be ran the entire length and would be sealed from the elements as well. A heat exchanger would also be a great way of ensuring that water entering the display is proper temp. Never the less I believe there is no worries of losing heat from running the plumbing exterior if the pvc is done properly and sealed from the elements.

My concern with running in soffit (unless done properly) is vibration and noise.

I would use a Blueline 70 so that you are not running the pump at it's full capabilities all the time. The pressure pump is built and designed to be throttled back. When doing this you will actually decrease the power consumption and heat. Whereas a flow pump SHOULD NOT be throttled back as it will create excess heat and WILL cause premature failure.

My 120 has a mag 7 with 5'6" of head height and I throttle back. I figure I get around 350-400 gph through my display. I personally think that you will do best having a flow to the display of well under 800 gph.
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Not true. Any pump that has an elbow or fitting or 1 foot of head is throttled back. The pump does not recognize the difference between a ball valve or 10 feet of lift. The throttle back of a pressure rated pump is actually not as efficient as a flow rated pump.
 
grouper therapy;593519 wrote: Not true. Any pump that has an elbow or fitting or 1 foot of head is throttled back. The pump does not recognize the difference between a ball valve or 10 feet of lift. The throttle back of a pressure rated pump is actually not as efficient as a flow rated pump.
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True dat,
Dave did a nice test w a kill-a-watt on that topic!
 
Those would be positive displacement pumps or roller pumps. Centrifugal pumps- like 99.999% of all pumps used on aquariums actually last longer and use less power when throttled back some with a valve on the outlet.
Heat and undue pressure will heat and destroy the ceramic bearings quickly.
I do in fact throttle back most mag pumps but I also go through many more impellers.

My point was simply "I believe he would be better suited using a Blueline 70" and " better have some in reserve than run the pump at full strength 100% of the time."
 
I understand,
But theoretically each pump is throttled back by its attached plumbing - theoretically I can follow, but in reality no pumps spins completely free of backpressure...
 
Fish Scales2;593522 wrote: Those would be positive displacement pumps or roller pumps. Centrifugal pumps- like 99.999% of all pumps used on aquariums actually last longer and use less power when throttled back some with a valve on the outlet.
Heat and undue pressure will heat and destroy the ceramic bearings quickly.
I do in fact throttle back most mag pumps but I also go through many more impellers.

My point was simply "I believe he would be better suited using a Blueline 70" and " better have some in reserve than run the pump at full strength 100% of the time."
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Not sure where that type of pump was mentioned but I do totally agree with you to have enough pump .
With the lift that he has I'm pretty sure they would be throttled back. That is my point the pump does not know the difference from throttled back by a valve or 10 fittings and 15 feet of lift ,there is no difference. Pressure rated pumps do not drop back their wattage when more head is applied as well as say your mag 7 does.
 
Yes true. What does it matter?

FACT: Run a mag12 at 90% 12ft head pressure and be ready to replace the impellor within a month as it will heat like crazy and expand the magnet and shaft until they break.

I will humbly step aside and allow this to get back onto Seths plumbing design and engineering. I look forward to what you guys come up with.
 
grouper therapy;593526 wrote: Not sure where that type of pump was mentioned but I do totally agree with you to have enough pump .
With the lift that he has I'm pretty sure they would be throttled back. That is my point the pump does not know the difference from throttled back by a valve or 10 fittings and 15 feet of lift ,there is no difference. Pressure rated pumps do not drop back their wattage when more head is applied as well as say your mag 7 does.
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I was backwards on the energy savings, sorry.:D
 
Fish Scales2;593528 wrote: Yes true. What does it matter?

FACT: Run a mag12 at 90% 12ft head pressure and be ready to replace the impellor within a month as it will heat like crazy and expand the magnet and shaft until they break.

I will humbly step aside and allow this to get back onto Seths plumbing design and engineering. I look forward to what you guys come up with.
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No need for you to "step aside because I disagree with you if that is the reason".That is a part of planning and discussions. I have asked a couple of times for explanations from you.
 
Uhhh...And Rum:)

Dead air is an insulator, For example thermal windows have a dead air space between the two panes. If that air were moving there would be no insulation, the energy would be transfered.

The only thing I can find that I did not answer was how to do a 2 pump application. You answered how to deal with the ATO and double float switch. I stated that the volume would need to increased as I would use 2 large containers to house the float switches. If not the pumps will be switching at alarming rates.

Dont worry, I am not picking up my ball and going home, I am merely going to step back and see you guide him in the right direction.:thumbs:
 
so if the DT is lower then the sump what happens to all the water in the lines when power goes out does it all go to the DT since it is lowest point in the system and does the DT have enough capacity for all the water or does it need to be half full to accomodate this
 
grouper therapy;593536 wrote: No need for you to "step aside because I disagree with you if that is the reason".That is a part of planning and discussions. I have asked a couple of times for explanations from you.
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I really appreciate all the thoughts and ideas all of you have presented. I'm learning a lot and consider all of you much more educated than myself on the topic. In just one weeks time I have redesigned the tank plan a half dozen times. It's from theories, experience, and creativity that I will find my solution. I know it won't be easy, but, that's half the fun!
In the end, I want the simplest solution to an otherwise complex problem. The less working/mechanical/electric parts the better. Less opportunity for something to fail.
Please, I encourage the healthy debate to continue. While the more I hear, the more confused I seem to become. I would rather have that over shooting in the dark.
Chris has seen my layout and Robin will be coming by Monday. I invite anyone who's willing, to come by and give me their thoughts and ideas.
 
Fish Scales2;593542 wrote: Uhhh...And Rum:)

Dead air is an insulator, For example thermal windows have a dead air space between the two panes. If that air were moving there would be no insulation, the energy would be transfered.

The only thing I can find that I did not answer was how to do a 2 pump application. You answered how to deal with the ATO and double float switch. I stated that the volume would need to increased as I would use 2 large containers to house the float switches. If not the pumps will be switching at alarming rates.

Dont worry, I am not picking up my ball and going home, I am merely going to step back and see you guide him in the right direction.:thumbs:
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No you were fine in your answers. I did not want you to think I did not highly respect your thoughts and ideas hence asking for them.:up:
I think I will get in to some of the rum now!!!!!! leave the egg nog in the fridge.
 
i was thinking if you are going to be using a pump on each end you will need to wire them up with a 3 way circut for each and have switches at both tanks to turn them both on and off from either end at the same time to avoid one overfilling the other tank running back and forth to shut them down for maintenance or anything
 
Seth there are doubled headed metering pumps available with a 300+ gph which would be ideal in situation as yours if the siphon/gravity doesn't work out, pretty pricey though.
 
grouper therapy;593694 wrote: Seth there are doubled headed metering pumps available with a 300+ gph which would be ideal in situation as yours if the siphon/gravity doesn't work out, pretty pricey though.
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Forgive my ignorance, but does "Double Head" mean one pump can be used for both drain and return?
 
grouper therapy;593694 wrote: Seth there are doubled headed metering pumps available with a 300+ gph which would be ideal in situation as yours if the siphon/gravity doesn't work out, pretty pricey though.
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So would I have to get a 4 foot behemoth like the PULSA 7660? Or, are there some you know of I should look at?
 
I may have thought of the perfect solution to my problem. (But I'm really going out in left field) Behind the tank is an exterior wall with brick. It's directly under my deck. (Pic included.) The area is directly between the two windows. I wonder if it would be more cost effective and simpler to construct an exterior fish shed to house the sump/etc. I could pour a small slab and frame it out and insulate it with thick foam panels. (Like those used to insulate commercial freezers)

Since I already having plumbing behind the molding adequate for doing water changes, I would still keep my premixed water in the original fish room and pump it over when needed. That means I'll have to get a second RODI (Just sold one! :doh:)
How about that for dedication to the build! :yay:
 
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