Flatworm exit/fish lethargic/please help

[jennm]

The observation that I made is that if the fish are poisoned from this, fixing it after the fact didn't work. Once I realized within a few hours, that there was a problem, I moved all my fish OUT of the treated tank. The ones that looked OK, went into my reef/sell system. The ones that didn't look so good went into quarantine. All clean, medication-free water that was well cycled. It was too late for the ones that looked rough, and even a couple that looked OK.

It seemed that the largest fish were the ones that suffered most, and died fastest. The smaller ones (except the male Banggai who might have been weak as he'd recently held eggs for ~28 days and as such, hadn't eaten during that time) seemed to do OK. In fact I still have the same pair of clowns that went through that nightmare.

I don't know why some fish came through it pretty much unscathed, and others died pretty quickly, and then in the couple of days immediately following, despite quick removal from the treated system.

I almost would have thought that the smaller fish would have gone quickest, but that wasn't the case.

Jenn

 

[acroholic]

jmaneyapanda;571164 wrote: I dont think there is any doubt that a toxin is in your water. Getting clean water in and bad water out is paramount, and will help enormously..........Do as much as you can. If you mix it properly, and its the same parameters, it will only help.

Here is where a lab certified salt like Salinity will help. You know it will be within accepted range and you should not have to worry about adjusting KH/Ca/Mag to normal levels, just temperature.

 

[mockery]

Is your skimmer running? The fish stress and lower activity might be related to lack of O2 in the water.

 

[basscyn]

Acroholic;571222 wrote: Here is where a lab certified salt like Salinity will help. You know it will be within accepted range and you should not have to worry about adjusting KH/Ca/Mag to normal levels, just temperature.

Funny... I had been using Salinity since it came out but just recently switched to IO. Got a deal I could not refuse

 

[basscyn]

Mockery;571237 wrote: Is your skimmer running? The fish stress and lower activity might be related to lack of O2 in the water.

Skimmer is on and running wet.
I have a lot of exchange in my system and several tangs, so I like to keep it highly oxygenated anyway.
Thanks brother.

 

[basscyn]

gnashty;571161 wrote: I know this doesnt help you immediately, but I use one of these. cheap and perfect to keep your RODI from overflowing...

http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Garden-Center-Watering-Sprinkler-Timers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zarie/R-100659515/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053">http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Garden-Center-Watering-Sprinkler-Timers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zarie/R-100659515/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053</a>[/QUOTE]


Dang!
I tend to overcomplicate sometimes and miss the simple solution.
This will definetly work for me...and will be useful NOW!
Thanks for the tip!
Off to HD!

 

[basscyn]

<span style="color: black">This really sucks!</span>

<span style="color: black">A list of my casualties... and some personal profiles.</span>


<u><span style="color: black">Hippo Tang.</span></u>
<span style="color: black">As I feared, she did not look good Saturday and did not make it.</span>
<span style="color: black">This was one of the first fish I ever got. Like all Hippos...her name was Dori. Ate like a pig. I was convinced she would eat as long as I would stand there and feed her. She survived every mistake I made in this hobby as I was starting up. Seems she was no match for flatworm toxin. Got her from a member here almost 3 years ago. She was living in a nano.</span>

<u><span style="color: black">Copper banded Butterfly.</span></u>
<span style="color: black">Some of you may know how hard it is to acclimate one of these guys. He was eating in the store, but got him home and would eat nothing. He would pick pods out of the rocks but not eat anything else. All the other fish would frenzy and food would fall all around him. He seemed a bit dimwitted about the whole thing. We named him Dum-Dum. Finally found the secret was PE Mysis. He was first in line for feeding every day since. Had this fish almost a year. Success rate for a CBB is not great. I was really proud I was able to keep him.</span>

<u><span style="color: black">Chromis (2)</span></u>
<span style="color: black">What can you say…they were chromis’s.</span>


<p style="text-align:left">Prognosis…bad
<u>Powder Blue Tang.</u>
Still alive and even eating a little yesterday but fins look bad and she looks like she has leprosy. I don’t expect her to make it through the day.

Prognosis…questionable.
<u>Yellow Tang</u>
Swims around and eating well…but has developed a small spot of this leprocy on one side.

Some good news!

Blonde Naso Tang. (Nigel, my favorite fish) Out of the rocks swimming around, eating, looks great! I think she will make it.

Bangi Cardinal, Coral Beauty, Sixline wrasse, Semi-Picasso Clown, blenny and gobie all look fine.

Continuing daily 20% water changes.

 

[jennm]

I feel your pain... I've been right there.

Sorry...

Jenn

 

[jmaneyapanda]

BASSCYN;571662 wrote: <span style="color: black">This really sucks!</span>

<span style="color: black">A list of my casualties... and some personal profiles.</span>


<u><span style="color: black">Hippo Tang.</span></u>
<span style="color: black">As I feared, she did not look good Saturday and did not make it.</span>
<span style="color: black">This was one of the first fish I ever got. Like all Hippos...her name was Dori. Ate like a pig. I was convinced she would eat as long as I would stand there and feed her. She survived every mistake I made in this hobby as I was starting up. Seems she was no match for flatworm toxin. Got her from a member here almost 3 years ago. She was living in a nano.</span>

<u><span style="color: black">Copper banded Butterfly.</span></u>
<span style="color: black">Some of you may know how hard it is to acclimate one of these guys. He was eating in the store, but got him home and would eat nothing. He would pick pods out of the rocks but not eat anything else. All the other fish would frenzy and food would fall all around him. He seemed a bit dimwitted about the whole thing. We named him Dum-Dum. Finally found the secret was PE Mysis. He was first in line for feeding every day since. Had this fish almost a year. Success rate for a CBB is not great. I was really proud I was able to keep him.</span>

<u><span style="color: black">Chromis (2)</span></u>
<span style="color: black">What can you say…they were chromis’s.</span>


<p style="text-align:left">Prognosis…bad
<u>Powder Blue Tang.</u>
Still alive and even eating a little yesterday but fins look bad and she looks like she has leprosy. I don’t expect her to make it through the day.

Prognosis…questionable.
<u>Yellow Tang</u>
Swims around and eating well…but has developed a small spot of this leprocy on one side.

Some good news!

Blonde Naso Tang. (Nigel, my favorite fish) Out of the rocks swimming around, eating, looks great! I think she will make it.

Bangi Cardinal, Coral Beauty, Sixline wrasse, Semi-Picasso Clown, blenny and gobie all look fine.

Continuing daily 20% water changes.

If you are seeing big open lesions, this is not from flatworm toxicity. Its a pathogen- likely brookynella or uronema. Water changes wont help. You need to treat.

 

[markl]

Hows your corals doing?

 

[basscyn]

MarkL;571705 wrote: Hows your corals doing?

As far as I can tell they are doing ok.
I have cut the halides off and just going actinic for a couple of days to hopefully help reduce stress in the fish.. I'll fire it back up tonight for a while and see how everything looks. I fear any problems with corals may take a little longer to be realized. But like Jeremy suggests water changes are the best thing I can do right now.

 

[basscyn]

jmaneyapanda;571699 wrote: If you are seeing big open lesions, this is not from flatworm toxicity. Its a pathogen- likely brookynella or uronema. Water changes wont help. You need to treat.

Treat with what?
Can I treat the whole tank?

Thanks!

 

[jmaneyapanda]

BASSCYN;571721 wrote: Treat with what?
Can I treat the whole tank?

Thanks!

If it IS brook or uronema, no you cant treat the tank with corals.

First off, does it look like this?

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Bear in mind, that is a BAD case, but is this what you mean by "leprosy"? If so, you'll need to do soemthing. I would suggest a formalin dip. Or, at least a FW dip. If you have a QT, I LOVE Seachem Paraguard. But, if youre seeing stuff like this, it isnt from the flatworms.

 

[basscyn]

jmaneyapanda;571746 wrote: If it IS brook or uronema, no you cant treat the tank with corals.

First off, does it look like this?

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Bear in mind, that is a BAD case, but is this what you mean by "leprosy"? If so, you'll need to do soemthing. I would suggest a formalin dip. Or, at least a FW dip. If you have a QT, I LOVE Seachem Paraguard. But, if youre seeing stuff like this, it isnt from the flatworms.

Its nowhere near that extreme. No open wounds...just...well...its hard to explain. Its like a white fungus lookin stuff. I got a good look at Dori as I was removing her. Its almost looked like solidified calcium on parts of her skin. Bumpy.
I fear I will be able to get a better look at my PBT tonight. I will post up a pic.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[jmaneyapanda]

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http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/review2_album/image005.jpg/variant/medium" alt="" />

[IMG]http://www.saltwater-aquarium-online-guide.com/image-files/uronema2.jpg alt="" />

 

[jmaneyapanda]

^^


Those are all uronema. It doesnt look like calcification, but open sores. Sorry, but I think I do need to see a pic.

 

[basscyn]

jmaneyapanda;571776 wrote: ^^

Those are all uronema. It doesnt look like calcification, but open sores. Sorry, but I think I do need to see a pic.

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Here ya go...

What a beautiful fish she was. Really added a lot of color. To me "personally" a PBT is the most beautiful fish a hobbiest can have and the epitome of a reef tank.

Anyways...

In the picture it <u>appears</u> to be an open wound...but it is just on the surface of the flesh. It also looks different out of water. The discolored area from above the eye towrd the back was a whitish color.

I dunno. I guess if she had lived longer the wound may have opened. It does look similar to the ones you posted doesnt it?

So...did the flatwork toxin just wipe out this fishes imune system or something.

All my other fish appear to be just fine now. All eating and swimming normally.

 

[acroholic]

Chris,
Did you add any fish shortly before doing the FWE? What I'm asking is the FWE the cause, or are you seeing an infection that is not from the FWE, but just happening around the same time?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Thats Uronema. The only way id be more sure, is if I did a skin and mucous scrape and looked under a microscope. The other fish *may* be fighting it off. But it is a bad and deadly disease, as you now know. Sadly, I dont think the FWE killed the fish. It may have bothered them to the point of succumbing to the disease, as you mentioned, but wounds like that are pathogenic, not environmental. Sorry.

 

[acroholic]

The open lesion on the tang is what made me wonder if it was something other than the FWE. I would think that if it were toxins in the water, then the fish would just die without that type of open wound. That's why I wondered if another fish has recently been added that may have introduced the pathogen into the tank.