You are correct but I am talking about using "one" phase not single phase. As for the rating of the switches they are the same. Either you buy 15 amp rated switches or you buy 20 Amp switches. Double pole does not change the rating.
GFI Receptacle or Grounding Probe?
- Thread starter rdnelson
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You are correct but I am talking about using "one" phase not single phase. As for the rating of the switches they are the same. Either you buy 15 amp rated switches or you buy 20 Amp switches. Double pole does not change the rating.
Rich... GOOD POST!
I use a grounding probe and GFI on my tank... guess I can remove the probe.
BUT... I do not use GFI on my mixing station. I see a quick weekend project coming up!
- Larry
I use a grounding probe and GFI on my tank... guess I can remove the probe.
BUT... I do not use GFI on my mixing station. I see a quick weekend project coming up!
- Larry
Yes you can run them in series with no problem. The one with the lowest rating (if they are different) will protect the circuit from overload (running for long periods slightly above the rating of the breaker). Either one would protect against short circuit (amperage nearing infinity in a fraction of a second). The GFI would protect against a ground fault (a portion of the current flowing to ground instead of returning via the intended conductor). Hope that makes sense.
Glad to hear someone listens to me now and then. LOL.
I should also bring up regular testing by pushing the "Test" button. I have seen tons of GFI receptacles go bad over the years. When they do go bad it is usually that they just no longer trip. That makes them just like any normal receptacle.
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Got it ! Thanks Rich.
Edit: Is a current monitor worth the investment as well? With titanium probes of course.
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Can't hurt but a "Kill-O-Watt" from HD would the the same thing cheaper. It appears that is just a digital ammeter. What are you trying to get from it? Are wanting to know the load at any given time, total consumption, or just wanting to know if it is running or not?
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It's only 17 bucks. Would it not detect current in the system?
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Cool thanks!
I was taught this-
-human skin resistance usually varies between 3,000-30,000 ohms. There can be variance above and below this, such as dripping wet with sweat, which lowers your resistance further and increases the resulting current through your body.
Electrocution usually occurs between 100-200mA
(I have a reference for joules/energy too, but I can't locate it right now)
Using ohms law E=IR for 120 volts we get:
Between 4 and 40 mA current through the body.
This is why most people don't die from contact with a 120 volt circuit.
At 220 you can basically double that current range to 8-80mA, so you're getting there.
At 480, watch out!
Rich and I both know how that feels!
I have also been told that the 60 cycle per second frequency of alternating current happens to be very good at inducing cardiac fibrillation. A state where the heart is out of efficient rhythm and can lead to death, as well.
I use GFCI's on all circuits around water. Have used ground probes, but don't now.
My $0.02
-human skin resistance usually varies between 3,000-30,000 ohms. There can be variance above and below this, such as dripping wet with sweat, which lowers your resistance further and increases the resulting current through your body.
Electrocution usually occurs between 100-200mA
(I have a reference for joules/energy too, but I can't locate it right now)
Using ohms law E=IR for 120 volts we get:
Between 4 and 40 mA current through the body.
This is why most people don't die from contact with a 120 volt circuit.
At 220 you can basically double that current range to 8-80mA, so you're getting there.
At 480, watch out!
Rich and I both know how that feels!
I have also been told that the 60 cycle per second frequency of alternating current happens to be very good at inducing cardiac fibrillation. A state where the heart is out of efficient rhythm and can lead to death, as well.
I use GFCI's on all circuits around water. Have used ground probes, but don't now.
My $0.02
My reference goes back to my days reading the text books while I was an apprentice. That was a LONG time ago. LOL. But as you said (and what I didn't clarify) was the effect on the heart. In lower voltages such as 120 volts that is a more common cause of death then the electrocution itself. In higher voltages burns and explosive forces start to enter the picture. In any case the risk is just not worth the trade of.
I learned the hard way. Never trust the apprentice and lock out the power yourself. I now carry a breaker lock and tag in my pocket if I am on the job. Even if I am standing next to the power source, it gets locked.
And yes my tank is on a gfci receptacle. The new one has a dedicated circuit with a gfci breaker.
And for people who may be renting/leasing the do make a gfci cord that plugs in like a drop cord but is only about a foot long.
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Unless you are using a controller I would recommend a bank of GFCI wired together using only the LINE side of the outlets to chain them together. The theory here is a GFCI will cut power to any outlet on the LOAD side if it trips. If you are running multiple heaters, power heads etc. and do not have them plugged into the same GFI at least some of any function will remain functional even with a tripped GFI. Most false trips on GFI seem to occur durring startup of large motors, though they are not supposed to. I also see false trips when power is restored after a power outage. I would still argue that nothing in any system is worth injury or death to a person.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
Good point. I have also seen many home owners attempt the change and find the outlet doesn't work. It is because they did not pay attention to line and load. LOL In my case, I use two dedicated circuits both with GFI recpetacles. The issue with the motor start up has been reduced over the years. Motors are built better and don't bleed as much electro-magnetic induction to the case reducing a current flow on the ground. With the less expensive GFI receptacles I find the biggest cause of false trips is lightning in the area. When lightning strikes nearby there is a good chance of some current back feeding through the ground conductor. That is what smokes TVs, Microwaves and Surround Sound Systems on a regular basis. LOL
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+1?
It All depends on the situation. Both do the same thing. If the outlet is say behind your tank and you can't access it, or you ate running a new circuit anyways the breaker is better for ease of installation. But the breaker protects the whole circuit. Which you may not want to do.
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