GFI Receptacle or Grounding Probe?

Because if you protect the whole circuit your tank is on one outlet. Somebody else plugs faulty piece of equipment in another outlet. Troops the circuit and doesn't even realize the tank is not running .

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
 
JohnIII;812947 wrote: Because if you protect the whole circuit your tank is on one outlet. Somebody else plugs faulty piece of equipment in another outlet. Troops the circuit and doesn't even realize the tank is not running .

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

+1

From a standpoint of protection they do the same thing. But as John said, with a breaker, everyting on the circuit is on it which may cause false trips. When installing a GFI receptacle, you can pigtail the wires in the junction box and run the taps to the "Line" side of the receptale. That way nothing else on that circuit will cause the GFI to trip (there are exceptions but very rare). A lot of people will just land the feed wires on the line side and the downstream wires on the load side. In that case, everything ahead of the GFI is unprotected but everything downstream is protected. A lot of times, they will get them reversed and put the feed wires on the load side terminals and downstream on the line terminals. Then nothing works (Right 90gallonguy?) :)

While replacing a receptacle or breaker is not a hard thing to do, I would not recomend it unless you are pretty sure you know what you are doing. AND MAKE SURE, that you turn the breaker off before working on it. You can check to make sure it is off by plugging a radio into the outlet and listen for it to go off when you turn the breaker off.
 
In my opinion yes. As much issolation as you can get (such as seperate circuit) reduces chances of false trips and the GFCI reduces of me having to carry you out feet first. :)
 
Dr. Fish;812899 wrote: Reading all this makes me feel a little uneasy. How often are people shocked by their tank?
Click to expand...

Knowledge is power.

What you really want to avoid is a situation where electric current enters one arm (either one) and exits the other. Why?

This exposes your heart to that 60 cycle/sec. frequency, I mentioned.
How to protect yourself?

MOST important safety rule is-
'the one hand rule'

Place one hand in a pocket when working on energized equipment
(I was taught back pocket, but any will do).

This minimizes the chance of current through the heart.
 
ichthyoid;812977 wrote: Knowledge is power.

What you really want to avoid is a situation where electric current enters one arm (either one) and exits the other. Why?

This exposes your heart to that 60 cycle/sec. frequency, I mentioned.
How to protect yourself?

MOST important safety rule is-
'the one hand rule'

Place one hand in a pocket when working on energized equipment
(I was taught back pocket, but any will do).

This minimizes the chance of current through the heart.
Click to expand...

LOL. I learned the one hand rule years ago. So learned not to wear any jewelry. Watches and rings can be murder in my industry. But Bill is correct. This thread is not meant to scare anyone but educate them to encourage safe practices.
 
One modification to the one hand rule..... Make sure it is the left hand in the picket. If you are working with the left hand it almost ensures it will vie through the heart.
 
So

If one shock puts you in v-fib, will two bring you back to normal? Stick your arm back in the tank, ha.
 
Dr. Fish;813017 wrote: So

If one shock puts you in v-fib, will two bring you back to normal? Stick your arm back in the tank, ha.
Click to expand...

Give it a try and let us know what you find out. :)
 
A couple modifiers on "hand in pocket"

A lot of us have basement sumps which is important because it is likely a concrete floor. This means it is a ground. A puddle of water, wet shoes, bare feet or socks on a concrete floor is an awesome way to run current through and arm, heart and out your feet. I had a voltage leaking MJ in my salt container and touched the water in socks. It hurt in a very special way. I am no stranger to getting a little 120 tingle, but it is never a good thing. I would never use a ground probe for reasons already mentioned in this thread. It really is the quickest way to send "stray" voltage on a path through your water column. You might as well plug an extension cord in and drop the other end in the tank. It creates about the same effect. Another thing to keep in mind is GFCIs do wear out the more they are tripped. If you replace them for your tank you might want to replace your kitchen and bath ones too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kayakATL;813049 wrote: A couple modifiers on "hand in pocket"

A lot of us have basement sumps which is important because it is likely a concrete floor. This means it is a ground. A puddle of water, wet shoes, bare feet or socks on a concrete floor is an awesome way to run current through and arm, heart and out your feet. I had a voltage leaking MJ in my salt container and touched the water in socks. It hurt in a very special way. I am no stranger to getting a little 120 tingle, but it is never a good thing. I would never use a ground probe for reasons already mentioned in this thread. It really is the quickest way to send "stray" voltage on a path through your water column. You might as well plug an extension cord in and drop the other end in the tank. It creates about the same effect. Another thing to keep in mind is GFCIs do wear out the more they are tripped. If you replace them for your tank you might want to replace your kitchen and bath ones too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Very good points.
 
Rich I will totaly disagree with you on the grounding probe issue and as fellow electrician and friend you and I have had a limited discussion or two about this.
I have 3 GFCI circuits feeding my 150 gallon tank and 40 gallon sump and if you remember we had a couple conversations where I was having an issue of getting that "tingly feeling" when I would stick my finger or hand in either of the tanks. I thought it was my imagination until one day I was standing on a wooden step ladder and realized I wasn't getting "that feeling" so I stepped off the ladder, stuck my finger in the tank and BAM there it was. Now remember every pump I am using is plugged into a GFCI protected circuit but I started unplugging pumps and never could narrow it down to the pump that was leaking the stray voltage so I figured I had a faulty GFCI recept or 2. Checked the recepts found no issues but replaced them anyways just to be certain. Now before you ask am I using a quality GFCI or one of the those bargain types that our online and phone sales wharehouses love to call us contractors about I am using Leviton product. In any case after spending more than a few hours going over the wiring and device system feeding my setup and toying with the pumps, lighting and fans I never could find where the stray voltage was coming from. I tried using a higher end fluke volt meter with varying setups to test the amount of voltage in the water and never could get a readable amount of current in the water column. I finally just chalked it up the the conductivity of saltwater magnifying the extremely small amount of leakage from all the pumps combined in my sump and even considered the possible effect of the natural electrical discharge of all the animal life in my system (as dumb as that sounds). In any case I purchased a ground probe, installed it and haven't had an issue with stray voltage since that day AND have found the growth rate of my sps, lps, zoas and mushrooms (in particular) has exploded.
I don't run heaters anymore after all the issues I've had with faulty heaters in the past even to the point of crashing an entire eco system that you personally saw before it crashed but I am convinced IF I had been utilizing and grounding probe at the time I would still have 90% or more of that aquariums occupants in my 150 setup today.
I personally am looking more into installing ARC fault protection instead of GFCI protection as I believe in the situation I ran into ARC fault may have picked up the issues I had with a faulty or cracked heater where the GFCI failed to do so. I will be disconnecting the GFCI recepts along with the ground probe and installing ARC fault breakers over thanksgiving weekend (if out of town company permits) and will report my findings. If my knowledge of this trade (which is limited at best) and my theory is correct the ARC fault breakers will drive me crazy resetting them every day.
 
So what did the probe do? I'm assuming that the current is still in the tank. Could the system be acting like a battery and storing energy then the probe is discharging?

Edit: I had a tingle like you speak of for years without any ill side effects. No heaters in the summer or powerheads and external pumps.
 
grouper therapy;813067 wrote: So what did the probe do? I'm assuming that the current is still in the tank. Could the system be acting like a battery and storing energy then the probe is discharging?

Edit: <u>I had a tingle like you speak of for years without any ill side effects.</u> No heaters in the summer or powerheads and external pumps.
Click to expand...
One in my sump as well !!!:eek:
 
Bill I agree with some of your statements and disagree with others. I do remember your crash very well and the conversations we had. You will also remember both of us testing for stay voltage when I was having big problems.

First while I don't argue the probability that the cracked heater was the cause of you problems I would point out that you only felt a tingle which leads me to believe that it was not a bolted fault but a small amount. That may have been enough to affect your livestock but not you or the GFI. I believe the GFI would have opened the circuit before it reached a level that would have done you harm. Sucks for the livestock but you are here telling us about it which is good news.

As for the stray voltages we both were reading with quality meters I have two theory's. First I believe the salt water is acting like an electrolyte and therefore our tanks form a quasi battery if you will. Second, I wonder if the salt water is more susceptible to inductive currents. Normally I would think the lighting would be the largest source however I am sure you T5s are running on electronic ballast and I know my LEDs are. But could the ballast/drivers be creating a harmonic distortion at the right frequency that may be making it worse? Not sur. that is above my pay grade.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

bg2311
DIY UV Sterilizer Project
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
Adam
Adam
andi.rahl
12 gallon Gankpike
Replies
14
Views
2K
andi.rahl
andi.rahl
A
Premier Aquatics - Got Algae?
Replies
0
Views
558
axio
A
A
Premier Aquatics - Got Algae?
Replies
0
Views
646
axio
A
A
Premier Aquatics - Got Algae?
Replies
0
Views
585
axio
A
Back
Top