Heeeeelllllpppppp with No3 and Phos

1mbrews8

1mbrews8

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Trying to still get this restart going and having "issues"

Currently, my hanna phos is at 0 (today is first day it has registered at 0)(started at like 40 I think) and nitrates at at least 50, if not 100 (hard to tell on salifert test) (def started at 100)

I have added a bunch of cheato, tiny ceriths and nass, have 2 fish in the 180g display, ~ 340g total system volume.
Bunch of green algae getting covered by more cyano.

Alk was at 8.288 this afternoon and dosed to get up to 9 goal.
cal is fine/above 500
mag is fine/above 1500

I just got some z/p to try and a monti.

I know most say 0 phos is bad, but I know 100 no3 is too lol!

What would be your first thing?

When I do W/C, the phos would go down, but not the no3.
I did stir up sand bed a bit when I restarted to make sure it was a bit cleaner/go ahead and go through cycle..

thanks!
 
So - I would go so far to say that your phosphates are NOT zero. They're just bound up in that algea. I could get some phosgard and run it in your system in whatever kind of reactor you have/can make. Or whatever GFO you want to use. If that algae is growing then you've got phosphates. They're just not in your water column.

As far as your nitrates, how much live rock do you have? How long as it been in your tank? What kind of fish? It sounds like your bacteria can't keep up with your bioload, and/or you're overfeeding. Both of which will increase phosphate/nitrates in the water. Something else to think about is that your test kit could be bad, and try a different test kit. Don't trust one thing to give you sound measurements. I use redundancies in all my testing.

Just my two cents, for what its worth.
 
When my nitrates are high, I increase water change volume and frequency. I typically do 10% every other week. When I've let things go too long I increase that to every week and add an additional 5g worth of water change. That's the only thing that has consistently worked for me and it seems like I have to deal with it just about every 24 months. You'd think at some point I'd learn and just do my regular water changes before things get too out of whack.

This last round I've started dosing NOPOX and had great results. I dosed half of what was recommended and nitrates went from 15+ down to less than 5 and I'm comfortable there. Now I'd dosing 1 mL per day to keep things in line. You can add live rock and/or biolballs but water changes are the easiest and most straight forward way to get things back under control.
 
Based on the algae growth, whatever your phosphates measure isn't all that realistic since a lot of it's being picked up by the algae. Water changes with manual removal is where I'd start. Looks like you've got algae, cyano and maybe some diatoms thrown in for good measure. What's your clean up crew look like?
 
Which Hanna tester and have you double tested the result.

Seeing this is a restart of a system that was neglected I'd go full reboot. Take the rock out and rinse it really good in saltwater and suck all the sand out and flush it till the water runs clear.
Then put it all back the way you want it. There will still be plenty of bacteria in the rock so the tank won't need a full cycle but don't add more fish for a while. Follow that up with several big water changes then let it stabilize keeping the lights on minimum for a month or so. Plan on two to three months to get it back up to par.
 
Just tested the fresh salt water just to make sure there’s nothing weird going on since I did just change my filters and everything. There is maybe 5 to 10 nitrates looks like, and phosphate is reading .41

That’s exactly what I thought about the phosphates since they have been coming down but then again algae has been growing more and more so I figured it is bound up in that. That’s why I got cheato to hopefully start of the display tank algae out

Cleanup crew is in different areas of the system, but roughly 500 super tiny cerith and I think around 1000 nass

I’m really trying not to dose anything, since sometimes that makes things worse. When my phosphates were pretty high I did use a little bit of phosphate RX for the water change water since my filters were bad. So could be that still bringing it down?
 
Dude. I've had algae like that. Several times. Phosphates don't go away on their own. Especially if you're feeding a tank. Chaeto only does so much, unless you've got a huge clump of it growing (like, two feet across) it's not going to make too much of a dent. Once you get the majority of that phosphate gone, then yes, chaeto will pretty much handle it.

My experience. I had a fish die. Couldn't find it. Algae, cyano, diatoms all over. I put Matrix (porous rock) and phosgard in my canister filter (that only acts as a reactor these days) and within a week all of the algae was gone. This happened recently. No other dosing. No lights out periods or anything like that. I didn't pick any algae off. Just phosgard, and everything is happy and shiny and pretty again in short order. If you DO put corals in there, they won't fare well.

You have 500 ceriths and 1000 nassarius snails? That might be a problem down the road as a lot of them will die off, and everything bound up in their bodies will decompose (that's not eaten by other CUC) and will add to your existing problem. I've battled phosphates numerous times before I went full sump and chaeto (I think you got some of the first trimmings of my chaeto!). The only thing I've found to remove the phosphate was a GFO or synthetic GFO. Just be sure to remove it if your phosphate levels start increasing, and put fresh GFO in. Once it's under control, chaeto should do the job alone.

Good luck getting that under control!
 
Regarding Hanna checkers, there’s the phosphate, and the Phosphorus ULR. Knowing which one will put your numbers in context for us.

You are not overstocked. But there is far too many available nutrients; which has caused your algae growth. It’s important to remember that our tests only test for the dissolved nutrients. I believe that either 1) you’re overfeeding, or 2) that your live rock had a lot of dead organic matter on it that decomposed.

Your Alk, Calc, and Mag won’t have any substantial impact on your algae outbreak or nutrients. No need to test for those at this point, as you shouldn’t have a bunch of corals or anything yet. More importantly; no need to dose yet, as your tank isn’t using these. Focus on the algae.

Unfortunately, algae’s and bacteria have to get into our system to get a foothold. They’re in yours already. That sucks. But it’s in the past, so we can move forwards. As for Cyano; Erythromycin or Chemiclean ‘can’ work. But you have to be diligent and ruthless. Cyano is a nightmare.

Lots of good advice on here so far! Listen to these good people
 
My conclusion is that maybe you went too fast; and now you’ll have to slam on the breaks and slow down quickly. Patience is important in this hobby, and is a problem for a lot of people getting started. The best thing that can help to get you on track faster is manual removal of nutrients.

When you do water changes; try to suck up as much of the algae and cyano as you can. Using a toothbrush or something can help to clean the rocks during the water changes. You want the disposal water that you’re pulling out to be dark and filthy. Siphoning the sandbed can also help; but I would prioritize the cyano/algae. All organic matter is composed of nutrients. Every small handful of algae/cyano/food/fish-waste that you can remove, is a handful of nutrients gone. And a handful closer to having a clean tank!

Regardless; this is going to take time. So buckle in and be prepared to do lots of waiting before it looks awesome!

That said; kudos on jumping into a large tank off the go! That was a great decision; and I many people, myself included, are jealous they didn’t start off that way.
 
As for stocking; that’s wayyyy too many Ceriths and Nassarius. I’d get as many of them out as you can; and see if you can sell them. Otherwise, they’re just gonna die and give you more algae problems.

In a tank that size; I would do between 3-10 nassarius. Maybe 20-40 ceriths. 20-40 Red Stripe Trochus snails. And 40-50 small hermits (preferably dwarf zebra hermits, but blue leg, red leg, or scarlets are good too).

We support you buddy! It may be a rough road; but you don’t have to walk it alone.
 
I actually had this running pretty good at one time :-) not anymore LOL! So I don’t think phosphates are potentially a problem, seems more like nitrates? Doing a water change actually tonight of about 45/50 gallons

Phosphate checker is low range, not ultra low

Barely feed at all. I think the fish have actually been surviving off of algae, including the clown fish LOL

I have been blowing off the rocks before water changes, but will definitely try a toothbrush and stuff method. Been concentrating more on the sand than the rocks so maybe that’s where I’ve been doing wrong?
 
ActiveAngel said:
As for stocking; that’s wayyyy too many Ceriths and Nassarius. I’d get as many of them out as you can; and see if you can sell them. Otherwise, they’re just gonna die and give you more algae problems.

In a tank that size; I would do between 3-10 nassarius. Maybe 20-40 ceriths. 20-40 Red Stripe Trochus snails. And 40-50 small hermits (preferably dwarf zebra hermits, but blue leg, red leg, or scarlets are good too).

We support you buddy! It may be a rough road; but you don’t have to walk it alone.
Click to expand...
Thanks! The ceriths are about the size of the lead in a pencil tip. Really tiny.

The nass are bigger, but even though I have kind of tried to clean the sand bed a little bit, it is still pretty nasty so I figured they would still have plenty to eat?
 
How much cheato do you have and what kind of light are you using to grow it?

Cyano in my experience is caused from an imbalance of Nitrate and phosphate, personally i choose macro algae as my method of nutrient control because it uptake both nutrients in a proper ratio. One other way to get nutrients down faster is through carbon dosing via vinegar and adjusting the skimmer for more of a wet skim, slowly reducing the carbon as the nutrients come down.

You said that you tested your fresh mixed water and there are nutrients present, if you are using a rodi unit it may be me to change the filters and di resin, you shouldn't be getting nutrients in the fresh mixed water. When you do a water change you are adding back nutrients that you are trying to take out.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Also wanted to mention that nutrients are probably bound up in the rock with as well, even after you get on the right track (method of removal) they will still be leaching out until they are depleted. This process will not be fast, but with a dedicated plan you can get the water clean.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
bhodges82 said:
How much cheato do you have and what kind of light are you using to grow it?

Cyano in my experience is caused from an imbalance of Nitrate and phosphate, personally i choose macro algae as my method of nutrient control because it uptake both nutrients in a proper ratio. One other way to get nutrients down faster is through carbon dosing via vinegar and adjusting the skimmer for more of a wet skim, slowly reducing the carbon as the nutrients come down.

You said that you tested your fresh mixed water and there are nutrients present, if you are using a rodi unit it may be me to change the filters and di resin, you shouldn't be getting nutrients in the fresh mixed water. When you do a water change you are adding back nutrients that you are trying to take out.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


have maybe 12" x 8" x 3" cheato in fuge
led red/white to grow it correctly (rec on r2r)

Just changed filters... maybe will change resin again even though not all blue/orange?

Yup... but since a lot lower in nitrates, but some phos, maybe will "balance" out?

Did about a 50g water change
 
I’ll lend you my denitritor if you want. It’s designed after Donovan’s on R2R. It will work. Slowly - but once it kicks in it will fix your NO3 issue. And that should equate to a manageable PO4
 
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