Help me decide on lights

[skriz]

Harleyguy;149549 wrote: The IceCap's aren't for the T5's (although I already have them for the T5's:roll: ). The IceCaps I'm referring to are the new Dimmable 400W hqi MH ballasts. Again, the thought here is to dim them in the morning and evening (saving on power) and running full strength during the middle of the day. Basically like this.

8AM T5's ON
9AM MH's ON Dimmer ON (when dimmed they run at 50% power)
12PM MH's ON Dimmer OFF
4PM MH's ON Dimmer ON
7PM MH's OFF
8PM T5's OFF

As for the MH's using different temp bulbs... Don't you think the spacing of the bulbs will cause a checkerboard like affect? Think of it this way 2 400W MH's over a 48" tank, the bulb on the right is a 10K the bulb on the left is a 20K what's that going to look like?

The checkerboard will depend on what bulbs you run. If you run 10k and 20k, then it could look a little odd. If you run say reeflux 12k and xm 20k, then it would blend well. it all depends on the bulbs and reflectors. the smaller the footprint of the reflector, the more blending you will get:

XOXO
OXOX

I would imagine the X would blend with the O here quite well?

The good reflectors will give you great 2' spread and probably decent 3' spread. You could do 10k bulbs down the center of the tank and then overdriven t5's on the outer edges. This will give you the bluer appearance, par and cooler temps?

I like the dimming feature for a more natural feel.

 

[tim8111]

Skriz;149536 wrote: colours

There is the king's english coming out.

 

[jaandgc]

I say 4 X 400 watt with LA3 on a light rail (mover). The LA3 from what I can remember (could be wrong) give a 36" spread so they would only have to move a little over a foot from front to back. I don't have the LA3 as of now, I am currently using PFO pendants on a light rail with 14k bulbs, and my tank is 120x48x24. I don't think the 14k's are bright enough, but they do cover the entire tank with the mover. Just something to think about.

 

[jaandgc]

I also run 8 4' vho's with the movers it just takes some planning.

 

[harleyguy]

Jaandgc;149622 wrote: I say 4 X 400 watt with LA3 on a light rail (mover). The LA3 from what I can remember (could be wrong) give a 36" spread so they would only have to move a little over a foot from front to back. I don't have the LA3 as of now, I am currently using PFO pendants on a light rail with 14k bulbs, and my tank is 120x48x24. I don't think the 14k's are bright enough, but they do cover the entire tank with the mover. Just something to think about.

I'm fairly certain that the LA3's have a 30" spread but when you get close to the end of the spread it drops off dramaticly... I could be wrong though... I thought this is what I read in one of Sanjay's articles.

 

[harleyguy]

Big D;149569 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I agree with Raj on the T5's... they'll be pretty much useless on a 36" deep tank as far as par is concerned (at least at the bottom 12"'s or so of the tank). Also, if you plan on turning them sideways to line up in between the halides, you'll have to use the same kelvin bulb on all of them. If you don't, you'll be able to see the different color spectrum in the bulbs. You might want to look into VHO's. I know they're not as efficient as the T5's, but you really can't beat the "Pop" that they give your corals. Here's what I'll be shooting for if I ever get a big tank:</span>







<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">

alt="" /></span>








<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">This tank is only a 225... he's running 2 400w SE 20k's and 3 140W URI VHO's, former TOTM on RC.</span>








<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Big D</span>

So what do you think would be better to augment the color on the MH's? The 10 T5's? or 5 VHO's?

 

[harleyguy]

Big D;149648 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Well, I'll be able to give you a better answer later today after I get my UVL Super Actinics on my tank. From what I've read they are the closest thing to VHO's in a T5 bulb. If I had to pick right now, I'd say VHO's. You can't beat the fluorescing that your corals will do under them, it's almost like having them under black lights.</span>






<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Big D</span>

Cool, make sure you take pictures. hoto: and let us all know how the bulb does.

 

[harleyguy]

OK I might have a problem with the Dimmable 8 MH idea... I'm still checking, but it looks like the new IceCap ballasts are not Dimmable... The old ballasts were, but apparently it caused a lot of bulb problems especially with color shift... I'm waiting to hear back.

I posted the same thread on RC and it seems that a most of the people on RC that have tanks 96" long only 3 MH's long ways. The guys that have the depth like I do are using 6 and filling the gaps with either T5's or VHO... Might be an option. If I do go this rout I will not be getting the IceCap ballasts.

 

[harleyguy]

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: Well it looks like IceCap's new MH ballasts are not dimmable. They just tacked the old PDF to their new ballast on their new updated website... I guess it just goes to show you can't alway believe everything you read on a Manufacturers web-sit...

So now I'm back at square 1 Suggestions? I could still do the "sets" of 400's, I would just go with LA3 reflectors and only do 6 MH's total...

Anyone have an opinion SE vs. DE in the 400W bulbs?

 

[glxtrix]

IMO, there is nothing better than VHO actinics. I'll get a pic of my 2x110 URI Super Actinics on my 140 later today. They really do make the colors POP! And I'm not running mine with reflectors. They have a "built-in" one, its not the greatest, but it does work.

 

[skriz]

I used to run vho actinics and they are awesome! They were just too large and I was gonig to switch to shorter bulbs. That's when I found a stupid deal on pc's ($5/bulb) and I figured I would try it out since I don't need them for par, just dusk/dawn. Anyhoo, point is, vho is great.

Secondly, the vho's with the internal reflector put our less par than those without the internal. You can use a flat reflector and get good numbers.

SE bulbs will give you more bulb options, and I think they're a little cheaper.

 

[harleyguy]

OK I know this question might raise some eyebrows...but what about heat between the T5's and the VHO's? I have heard that the VHO's get HOT, and the T5's not so much...

I know the hood is going to be like Iraq in the summer but if I cam do something, anything to alleviate some of this then it might be worth it.

What about a mixture of MH, T5 and VHO's? Or is that a stupid idea? Remember I already have 4 IceCap 660's and 3 430's LOL... Now it's just bulbs, end caps, and reflectors...


Oh and I think I have decided I'm going with 6 400W MH's... and I think I'm going to use either all LA3 Mini's or 3 LA3's and 3 Lumenmax (for space)

 

[humptrax]

T5s stay pretty cool to the touch. VHOs get pretty hot.

i don't think there's anything wrong with getting a mixture of the different bulb types, besides the wiring nightmare you might have on your hands...

why not go with all halides and use 150W or 250W 20k bulbs for dusk/dawn and supplement it with 400W 10k bulbs? stagger the lights in the hood (400Ws few inches higher than 250W for better white light dispersion) and use LEDs for early morning/late night?

i'd go with the blue wave M80 ballast so that you can not only overdrive SE bulbs but you can switch to DE if you'd like. icecap gives you the same flexibility but if light penetration is a concern, this might be a solution.

having a few fans to push/draw air in and out of the hood will keep the heat under control for the most part.

 

[harleyguy]

What is a Blue Wave M80 ballast??? I've been to the Sunlight Supply web site and I couldn't find anything about it?

 

[skriz]

Harleyguy;149930 wrote: What is a Blue Wave M80 ballast??? I've been to the Sunlight Supply web site and I couldn't find anything about it?

HQI ballast.

 

[roland jacques]

If you drive VHO with VHO ballast they get VERY VERY hot. But most people underdrive them with Ice Cap ballast. My VHOs with Ice Caps seem about the same heat as T-5s on Ice Caps but ive never check it closely.

x--x--x
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In a tank like yours I like sps corals to grow towards the viewing glass. kind of gives that looking down at them viewpoint. So i would position they 400s as close to the vewing glass as possable. Kind of unorthadox

You can put the T-5s on dimmables and play with the corner lights for some cool shadow effects on sunrise/sunset.

 

[harleyguy]

OK so I learned more about my tank, and now I'm having to do some serious thinking.... First off, does anyone know a good welder that is reasonably priced??? (I' get to that in a few)...

So here is what I'm dealing with:

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The openings on the top of the tank are 30"x30"... being the math wiz I am I concluded that this makes the side 9" and the front middle and back braces 12" each. With all the plans we talked about for lighting... I really can't see any of them working... When I asked the previous owner what he did, and thought I should do, he said 2 Lumenarc reflectors with 400's and fill in the sides with as many T5's as I could fit:confused2: . I did tell him this was going to be an SPS reef...

So I'm looking for options here... I could go mixed reef... but I'd rather leave the LPS and softies at the bottom where they belong, not on the top of the reef right in the middle... I could go with 2 islands... seems like a waste if you ask me... I really need options here...

The final option I have, and I have put a lot of thought into this, but it would be the final option... I could have a steel frame built that would go around the top. The frame would be made from 3" angle iron then at 5 points on each side (the 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, and 3/4 points) I would have heavy rings welded into place. I would then have heavy Turnbuckles (preferably stainless steel) that I could move depending on how I decided to do my lights. I want these to be movable just in case I decide to change my lighting plan down the road. The frame would be powder-coated, Line-Xed, or both (recommendations here as well). The finally the existing Euro brace would be cut... not completely out, but back... I would likely leave a 6" rim on the sides and 12" at the front and back (I would leave these because of the wave created by the Tunze wave boxes and the fact that I don't want water everywhere). Doing this would leave me an almost completely open top so I could put light where ever and however I wanted, with little or no limitations...

Here is where I need opinions... Like I stated before I would rather not cut the top (I see this as getting expensive) and do consider this a last resort. I did think of putting 3 400's in each cut-out, they would be in a triangle pattern with 2 being side by side closest to the middle and 1 being centered at the front and back respectively to there hole...like this:

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The amount of T5's on the sides are a guess, but as it stands:
6 400W MH's = 2400W's
16 54W T5's = 864W's
12 24W T5's = 288W's

Total 3552 W's or 4.93 watts per gallon...

 

[humptrax]

dawgdude;154979 wrote: I do my lighting around my rockwork since technically you are lighting the corals on the rockwork.

couldn't have said it better myself. the old rule of having so many watts per gallon, IMO, is old school thinking.

i think if you spend more time planning (aquascaping and coral placement), you wouldn't have to use as many lights as you're planning on using.

then again, i've never owned a tank so beautiful so what the heck do i know??

 

[harleyguy]

dawgdude;154979 wrote: Well here is the more important question Shane.

WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE!!!

Haha any way in all seriousness, how are you going to do your rock work. That will be the biggest thing to determine lighting layout for me. I do my lighting around my rockwork since technically you are lighting the corals on the rockwork.

Simple answer... The Army hates me and wants me to suffer...:confused2:
As far as the rock work... I don't know How am I doing the rock work... or I should say how are you doing my rock work...

PS How are my clowns??? I haven't seen any pictures today and why do they have Ick???:unsure: :doh::sad: :confused2: :yuk: :yikes: :huh: :eeek: :d'oh: :aww: :goodjob: :tease:

 

[harleyguy]

OK... So maybe help with the lighting is a question that should be followed by Help me figure out my rock work... In the past I have simple thrown the rock in a huge pile and crossed my fingers. With this tank I am obviously going to have a center line of rock; I guess the question is.... is that center line going to be split into 2 different mounds with a valley in between... Opinions please.

Also if I used the 6 MH method that I have above, then I should be good with a valley in the middle. I could go with a lot less T5's and run say 2 rows of T5's on each side (just so the tank doesn't look dark) and use VHO's in the middle for color...