Help me decide on lights

[casper75]

Coralvue makes a dimmable ballast, and there Lumenbright reflectors cover some kick A** plus you can run them with your bulb 16" off the water.
Here is link to the reflectors

 

[mojo]

I've read through the thread, and I still can't figure out why you're so incredibly set on using T5's or VHO's? If you add enough halides to light the tank like you'll want, then it'll take 100 T5's to even be noticable. You can get the color you want with halides, there's less to deal with, and I'm guessing heat is really a side issue. So... I guess I'm wondering why you're so married to T5's? Because they're a fad?

My advice is to skip the T5's and VHO's all together, unless you want a couple for dusk to dawn, and just do all MH's - either 8x400w or 4x1000w. It's much easier in the end, and a lot less mess to worry about. The saying "Keep It Simple, Stupid" has always worked for me in the past...

 

[harleyguy]

casper75;155493 wrote: Coralvue makes a dimmable ballast, and there Lumenbright reflectors cover some kick A** plus you can run them with your bulb 16" off the water.
Here is link to the reflectors http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1211402">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1211402</a>[/QUOTE]

Right now I am not considering the LumenBright reflectors. I have read a lot about them, but In my case spread is my main concern. I feel that a 400W bulb with a good reflector will give me the penetration I need, but the LA3 reflectors will simply do a better job of evenly distributing the light within the tank. If I do cut the top and build a brace I might consider the LB reflectors at that point... I hear they are coming out with a 24" LB which might be good for my application then we will have to see.


I have also considered doing 2 1000W MH's with the flying saucer reflector (one over each opening) but I'm just not sure if the 1000W bulbs are going to be too strong or not. Think about it though 2 1000W's and several VHO's or T5's (to fill dead spots and add color... That might be cool...

 

[mojo]

Also- looking at the tank, it wouldn't be all that difficult to open up the top more. The best / easiest way to do this would be to buy a sheet of 3/4 or 1" acrylic, route out both that top sheet to what you want, bond it to the top of the tank, and then route out the top of the tank with an edging bit. The top would be stronger than it is now, and you'd have more room. I've done something similar on several sumps... it's not too difficult.

 

[mojo]

Harleyguy;155609 wrote: If I do cut the top and build a brace

 

[harleyguy]

mojo;155613 wrote: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37907">Been there, done that. </a>I ended up with 300g of water on the floor and pieces for a frag tank. Acrylic and metal bracing don't mix... Modifying the acrylic top like I mentioned above will do what you need.[/QUOTE]

Thanks mojo, I read you thread about your old tank... Man that is a bummer... but after reading it and seeing the pictures I just don't think the problem was with the metal brace... The one thing that lead me to this conclusion was a statement you made to someone about bowing... You said that you had got the chance to check the bowing and it bowed 1/16" of an inch at the top (basically bowing until it met the metal) and 1/8" in the center. That sounds to me like the tank was under built. Also when you have a catastrophic release caused by inadequate top bracing often enough the panel splits and if any seams let go it's the sides where the most force is being applied. I think they used capillary action for there gluing technique and simply didn't get enough "glue" at the seam where the two panels met.

The guy I bought the tank from is the owner of Ultimate Aquariums. He built this tank for himself and had it funning in his house for some time. He told me that this was his "show/display" tank so everything on it was perfect. He also stated that there isn't a single air bubble anywhere on any seam on that tank. I asked him about doing the top brace (like I mentioned previously) and he told me that that would work fine. He said that it is no different than a glass tank builder putting a brace at the top instead of Euro bracing. He also said that the point of the top Euro brace is to add rigidity and to prevent flexing (as much as possible) and this can be accomplished with a strong Edge brace.

With all this said, I still have concern and I still would only do this as a last resort after a lot of testing (of different light schemes) with the tank in it's existing configuration. I will consider adding to the existing Euro bracing, but I would need to get with some very reputable Acrylic tank builders to determine how thick the top Euro brace would have to be in order to cut it back the way I would want to (really I would be happy yo just loose the center brace). I would also want to find out if two pieces of acrylic that are laminated together are as strong as a "regular piece of thick acrylic. Also I'm not sure adding another piece of acrylic to the top would be cost affective. From what I have seen a 4x8 sheet of 1 1/4" cost's over $1000, plus the labor to do the modification.

 

[mojo]

Yes, I think the problem with the tank was related to a bad joint, not the brace. My statement about bracing and acrylic tanks was based on research I did after that happened to determine the actual cause. It seems that acrylic is designed to give a certain amount, which allows us to use thinner pieces than would normally be needed. Glass, on the other hand, is not designed to do the same, and thus will shatter. This bowing makes the use of a metal brace difficult on acrylic tanks, which is one reason you don't see them in use. Think about the front of the tank, near the top, and how it's bowing (even if not perceptible) under that brace. You're creating all kind of pressure points (because the bowing won't allow uniform pressure across the beam), and acrylic doesn't do well with pressure points. Is it possible? Sure. But I wouldn't recommend it, after reading up. Sorry I can't point to any links- it's been far too long.

As for laminating acrylic together, this is how sheets > 2" are formed. See if you can find sheets thicker than 2", and you won't be able to - they're all laminated from there. You could do the modifcation yourself - it's not terribly difficult; however, there's no getting around the price. Still, I would choose laminating acrylic over a metal brace...

Good luck in whatever you choose. If you go with the brace, it'll be interesting to see what happens over time.

 

[casper75]

Harley
I understand about what you are saying about the lumenbright , but if you look through that thread I posted you see you can raise the reflector up to get more coverage and not lose any par. I did alot of thinking before I went with the large lumenbright for my 300. Also I definately agree with MOJO about reforcing the top of the tank. Acrylic tanks are built to spec with the top you have now for structual integrity. If you want to I can give you an acrylic tank builder I know By the name of Scott (AKA SPAZZ) you can talk to about cutting the top and adding more support to it.

 

[harleyguy]

Mojo I really value your opinion on this and I'd like to run a couple of thought I had past you... I have been thinking about the pressure point issue as well and one thought I had was to make the whole brace 1/4" oversized to the top. This would give me 1/8" on each side, then before the brace was put into position coat the inside of the brace with silicone and push the brace into place. Once the silicone dries I "should" have a uniformly think 1/8" buffer between the Brace and the acrylic sheet. The silicone is slightly flexible and should allow the tank to flex "a little". If I used this in conjunction with the fact that all I would really be doing is taking out the center brace and trimming the sides (I would leave 6" on each side and 1' at the front and back) do you think it would work? and do you think I would have problems?

Thanks

 

[harleyguy]

casper75;155632 wrote: Harley
I understand about what you are saying about the lumenbright , but if you look through that thread I posted you see you can raise the reflector up to get more coverage and not lose any par. I did alot of thinking before I went with the large lumenbright for my 300. Also I definately agree with MOJO about reforcing the top of the tank. Acrylic tanks are built to spec with the top you have now for structual integrity. If you want to I can give you an acrylic tank builder I know By the name of Scott (AKA SPAZZ) you can talk to about cutting the top and adding more support to it.

Man that's funny... I have been talking to Scott for about 6 months now... He was the one that suggested the Steel brace in the first place... And as for the LB reflectors, I think what I will do is maybe be try and get one and do some testing on my tank... Worst case scenario, if I don't like it I sell it, or use it on a different tank.

 

[casper75]

When are you going to be home. I have one you can try and let me know what you think

 

[mojo]

Harleyguy;155634 wrote: Once the silicone dries I "should" have a uniformly think 1/8" buffer between the Brace and the acrylic sheet.

I understand exactly what you're talking about - I tried to do the same thing, but used silicone rubber strips I found from McMaster - what you're talking about should work better. My concern would be the optimal thickness for the silicone - too little, and there's not enough buffer; too much, and the brace won't be effective enough. I don't have a clue what that optimal size would be, however. The other issue is the heigh of the brace around the ouside of the tank - I don't know how much would be enough...

 

[harleyguy]

casper75;155638 wrote: When are you going to be home. I have one you can try and let me know what you think

I should be home in about a month, but it will likely be at least 2-3 months before I can do any testing... If you still have the reflector at that point, and your still willing to let me borrow it, I'd love to take you up on that offer...

Thanks

 

[blind1993]

how about this; you leave the tank the way it is and work around its cons?

the light lay out the you have should work if you aquascape to work with it.

 

[harleyguy]

mojo;155644 wrote: I understand exactly what you're talking about - I tried to do the same thing, but used silicone rubber strips I found from McMaster - what you're talking about should work better. My concern would be the optimal thickness for the silicone - too little, and there's not enough buffer; too much, and the brace won't be effective enough. I don't have a clue what that optimal size would be, however. The other issue is the heigh of the brace around the ouside of the tank - I don't know how much would be enough...

I understand about the thickness thing. I don't want more than 1/8" of bowing, that is why I picked that number. As for the height of the brace, this is a pure guess as well, but I figured 3"angle iron would give me 3" of support... well 2 1/4" anyway (3/4" on Euro and 2 1/4" on panel). Maybe I should make a smaller scale replica and see what happens... (again if I decide to go this way)

 

[harleyguy]

blind1993;155662 wrote: how about this; you leave the tank the way it is and work around its cons?

the light lay out the you have should work if you aquascape to work with it.

You're absolutely right and basically stating what I said before. Altering the tank would be my last resort. But with that said, I have never had an acrylic tank before and I don't know anything about how the light is affected by going threw the acrylic. Also I am scared of the heat from the lighting affecting the acrylic that is why I have asked for suggestions. As for the alteration of the tank goes... if it comes to that point I want to have as much knowledge on the subject as I can, the last thing I want is a repeat of Mojo's tragedy on a larger scale.

 

[blind1993]

this is what your canopy should look like

disregard the high.

EDIT: how do i change the form from google sketch up to something that will post here?