how to kill a birdsnest

[tbub1221]

Russ-IV;1039204 wrote: hmmm interesting. i drop from 10 dkh to 8 durig the week and bump it back to 10 on the weekends. is that enough to kill it?

Yes alk swing like this will definitely kill or really piss off sps

 

[tbub1221]

Russ look in to adding kalk in your ato water , it's giving me a lot of stability I have a good calcium demand

 

[dawgface]

Russ-IV;1039260 wrote: missed this one.

why do you think i bump alk? should i get indepth with ion count, depletion and how orp theory was even brought in to the hobby?

these kind of snarky questions are not productive at all.

Sorry?

Snarkiness is very rarely followed or following helpful comments.

Both of my questions were meant to fully paint a picture into your operation so as to be as helpful as possible. Fundementally I thought I knew why.... but from my perspective why assume when you've asked for help. Additionally your focusing on the wrong why. I'm not necessarily going after your knowledge of reef chemistry. But rather limitations within your schedule, ability or scope that lead to you doing it a certain way.

 

[russ-iv]

dball711;1039275 wrote: I don't believe Jesse was being snarky with the comment and I don't mean t come off like a jerk but with this statement...

"In depth with ion count, depletion and how or theory was brought in"...I am surprised you didn't know a 25% Alk swing in a single dose was detrimental?

not at all.
doing a power water change does the same thing

DawgFace;1039291 wrote: Sorry?

Snarkiness is very rarely followed or following helpful comments.

Both of my questions were meant to fully paint a picture into your operation so as to be as helpful as possible. Fundementally I thought I knew why.... but from my perspective why assume when you've asked for help. Additionally your focusing on the wrong why. I'm not necessarily going after your knowledge of reef chemistry. But rather limitations within your schedule, ability or scope that lead to you doing it a certain way.

hard to read someone's intent from text. it DID come off to me as a loaded question.
sorry for interpreting it that way.

 

[dawgface]

Russ-IV;1039300 wrote: not at all.
doing a power water change does the same thing



hard to read someone's intent from text. it DID come off to me as a loaded question.
sorry for interpreting it that way.

No worries.

To the water change similarities, adjusting from 8-10 dkh is not recommended either. Honestly I find that to be extremely hard with out a significantly large water change. Which I'd only suggest doing to remove containments or other specific circumstances. The chemistry change in that large of a water change can cause problems outside of just alk.

 

[crew]

I think most would agree no more than a 1.4 dk/h swing in a single 24 period, so that is probably part of the issue. I love my BRS dose pumps - work like a charm. Once I figured out how much to dose per day, I was all set.

 

[russ-iv]

birdsnest is still looking good but ill see what happens by this weekend.

i did a 10% WC and my dkh rose from 8 to 9. using IO reef crystals. This may pose a challenge since i need to drop my alk to a NSW of 7 due to lack of trates and phos.
For now im letting it drop naturally and keeping calcium at 450.

anyone have a suggestion on salt that doesnt raise alk sky high?

also due to the lack of alk, im not sure how this will effect ph swings

 

[crew]

Why do you want alk to drop to 7? NSW has a dKH of 7, but there are several reasons you don't want that in a home aquarium. Off the top of my head, pH stability and nitrate tolerance would be two great reasons to run Alk closer to 10-12.

pH stays much more stable with "high" alk because you can basically buffer the water with calcium carbonate/bicarbonate, and corals have been shown to be much more tolerant of nitrates with a higher dKH.

Elevated nitrate (above 1 ppm) has been shown to reduce the growth of corals, specifically LPS and SPS,but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 12 dKH). One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.

Since very few reefers can keep their tanks with undetectable amounts of nitrate, this route is more popular.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

I use regular instant ocean. It's about the least amped up I've found.
Something doesn't calculate right though. 10% water change should not have changed your alkalinity by 1 full point. That would mean that the alkalinity of the solution you added was 18 dkh.
With respect to ph. Alkalinity is only temporarily tied to it. I would not worry about ph. If everything is in line ph will be fine.

 

[ringo®]

Russ-IV;1039580 wrote: anyone have a suggestion on salt that doesnt raise alk sky high?

Regular Red Sea

 

[russ-iv]

Crew;1039581 wrote: Why do you want alk to drop to 7? NSW has a dKH of 7, but there are several reasons you don't want that in a home aquarium. Off the top of my head, pH stability and nitrate tolerance would be two great reasons to run Alk closer to 10-12.

pH stays much more stable with "high" alk because you can basically buffer the water with calcium carbonate/bicarbonate, and corals have been shown to be much more tolerant of nitrates with a higher dKH.

Elevated nitrate (above 1 ppm) has been shown to reduce the growth of corals, specifically LPS and SPS,but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 12 dKH). One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.

Since very few reefers can keep their tanks with undetectable amounts of nitrate, this route is more popular.

my nitrate stays at 0-.25 without WC.

that is point two five. not 25 ppm

 

[russ-iv]

outdrsyguy1;1039582 wrote: I use regular instant ocean. It's about the least amped up I've found.
Something doesn't calculate right though. 10% water change should not have changed your alkalinity by 1 full point. That would mean that the alkalinity of the solution you added was 18 dkh.
With respect to ph. Alkalinity is only temporarily tied to it. I would not worry about ph. If everything is in line ph will be fine.

it is roughly 10%. 35 gallons with a 265 display and 80 sump.
IO reef crystals gives me 14-15dkh when mixed

 

[bcavalli]

Russ-IV;1039587 wrote: it is roughly 10%. 35 gallons with a 265 display and 80 sump.
IO reef crystals gives me 14-15dkh when mixed

You may want to take your freshly mixed salt water in for a test at your local LFS. Either your text kit is bad or you have a bad batch of RC. With the exception of one box of RC mine has always tested at 9 to 9.2 Alk. The one time I did have a bad box it tested at 11dkh.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

My experience matches Brett's above. Never had any io test over 10. Red Sea pro I've had near there but still not quite that high.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

I meant never over 12.5 with coral pro

 

[ringo®]

Bcavalli;1039591 wrote: You may want to take your freshly mixed salt water in for a test at your local LFS. Either your text kit is bad or you have a bad batch of RC. With the exception of one box of RC mine has always tested at 9 to 9.2 Alk. The one time I did have a bad box it tested at 11dkh.

Do you mean IO? RC should measure higher than 9. Should be around 11 on freshly mixed.

 

[bcavalli]

Ringo®;1039594 wrote: Do you mean IO? RC should measure higher than 9. Should be around 11 on freshly mixed.

I use RC. It's been quite a while since testing it. But, unless I'm losing my mind which is quite possible. Lol. It always tested out in the 9dkh range.

 

[russ-iv]

barry_keith;1039590 wrote: with what test?

red sea and api

 

[russ-iv]

Ringo®;1039594 wrote: Do you mean IO? RC should measure higher than 9. Should be around 11 on freshly mixed.

i usually get 12 but ive had it as high as 14 before. i get the 200 gal box

 

[bcavalli]

Russ-IV;1039597 wrote: i usually get 12 but ive had it as high as 14 before. i get the 200 gal box

I use the box as well. Do you mix an entire bag at one time? Or partial bags? I've read about instances with buckets and partial bags that the elements had settled at the bottom and given off the chart readings or the opposite as well.