kalk and ATO

[acroholic]

I think Dave's system works well for him. We've discussed this before, and if I remember correctly, this setup uses a good bit of space. A Nilsen is probably a good option for someone that has limited space.

And a redundant setup that turns power off to the ATO/Nilsen if the tank pH spikes is a good move. I did this after I OD'd my tank when I forgot to turn the ATO off while drip acclimating a new fish. Caught it early, though, so I didn't hurt anything, thankfully.

 

[grouper therapy]

Set my system aside I still don't understand why one would hook up their kalk to to an ato, when you could drip it all day everyday? I guess I need someone to tell me the advantage of using the ato to administer kalk instead of dripping it?

 

[jaustin]

Set my system aside I still don't understand why one would hook up their kalk to to an ato, when you could drip it all day everyday? I guess I need someone to tell me the advantage of using the ato to administer kalk instead of dripping it?

I used to drip kalk....got irritated with mixing and dripping and forgetting to drip. The nozzle became clogged, ect. I went to a kalk top off because it's way easier to manage IMO. Your way or a reactor isn't wrong at all. I've done all three and top off kalk has won my heart. I fill my 35g res every two weeks and add kalk powder from BRS and go about my business. I test alk every week and its steady at 8.5-9. I evap A LOT of water because i have a 400w mh over my display and a 150w mh over sump where my frags are. There are two 110 CFM fans in my hood and one small fan under sump. the sump fan runs 24/7 and the hood fans come on with vho and then with MH. It's about a gallon a day of evap.

Keep on doing what's good for you if your alk is stable....stable alk is a pillar in a successful reef tank.

 

[grouper therapy]

JAustin;516532 wrote: I used to drip kalk....got irritated with mixing and dripping and forgetting to drip. The nozzle became clogged, ect. I went to a kalk top off because it's way easier to manage IMO. Your way or a reactor isn't wrong at all. I've done all three and top off kalk has won my heart. I fill my 35g res every two weeks and add kalk powder from BRS and go about my business. I test alk every week and its steady at 8.5-9. I evap A LOT of water because i have a 400w mh over my display and a 150w mh over sump where my frags are. There are two 110 CFM fans in my hood and one small fan under sump. the sump fan runs 24/7 and the hood fans come on with vho and then with MH. It's about a gallon a day of evap.

Keep on doing what's good for you if your alk is stable....stable alk is a pillar in a successful reef tank.

How many times does your ato come on a day?

 

[acroholic]

grouper therapy;516471 wrote: Set my system aside I still don't understand why one would hook up their kalk to to an ato, when you could drip it all day everyday? I guess I need someone to tell me the advantage of using the ato to administer kalk instead of dripping it?

The info on the net says that you want an airtight, sealed container (nilsen reactor in my case) to dose kalk because otherwise, in an an open to the air container, CO2 in the air reacts and forms the white precipitate calcium carbonate.

I guess the question is regarding open vs sealed containers is whether the amount of CaOH lost to precipitatation is significant enough to make a difference? You can find threads saying it is and threads saying it isn't.

I've seen posts that say in an open container once a film forms on the top of the water, then that is basically a seal to outside air.

I use a Nilsen for convenience an space considerations. An Osmolator is a good choice for this setup, IMO, becasue the IR sensing eye in the Osmolator senses small changes and rarely runs more than 20-30cc volume into the sump at a time.

I run kalk mainly because it helps keep my system pH at 8.2-8.3. I have a calcium reactor and a nitrate reactor, and they both have low pH effluent, the nitrate reactor's is lower than the calcium reactor's, and without the kalk my system pH stays about 8.0.

I wonder if those new CO2 scrubbers would remove enough CO2 from the air entering the skimmer to eliminate the need for Kalk dosing altogether?

 

[weaglereefer]

Acroholic;516571 wrote: The info on the net says that you want an airtight, sealed container (nilsen reactor in my case) to dose kalk because otherwise, in an an open to the air container, CO2 in the air reacts and forms the white precipitate calcium carbonate.

I guess the question is regarding open vs sealed containers is whether the amount of CaOH lost to precipitatation is significant enough to make a difference? You can find threads saying it is and threads saying it isn't.

I've seen posts that say in an open container once a film forms on the top of the water, then that is basically a seal to outside air.

My Aquamedic unit is not water tight, there is an inch or so of air at the top of the unit. There is a noticeable film on top of the water.

I may change the setup and make it a gravity fed drip vs the top off, but I'll need to order another needle valve for precise control.

 

[grouper therapy]

I need to rephrase my question. Regardless of the container used to mix the kalk.whether it is a reactor an open tank or food processor why is it advantageous to administer the effuent out of the "reactor " via ato versus just dripping it continuously? That is what I don't understand .

 

[jaustin]

truthfully I don't understand using a reactor. Once you add kalk to RO water it becomes saturated. Even when the slurry settles to the bottom the clear fluid is still saturated days later. Filling my res. once every two weeks and dumping a couple cups of kalk is easy and cheap! Dripping is fine but when I dripped the nozzle became clogged and the valve was an inch off the bottom of the jug.
I've got an ATO from automatictopoff.com and it turn on my aqua-lifter pump on a hundred times a day it seems.

 

[acroholic]

au01st;516575 wrote: My Aquamedic unit is not water tight, there is an inch or so of air at the top of the unit. There is a noticeable film on top of the water.

You may have an airspace in the unit, but there is not new air entering the unit, right? Any air in your stirrer would quickly bcome depleted of CO2 so I would not think it makes much of a difference in that case.

 

[acroholic]

grouper therapy;516576 wrote: I need to rephrase my question. Regardless of the container used to mix the kalk.whether it is a reactor an open tank or food processor why is it advantageous to administer the effuent out of the "reactor " via ato versus just dripping it continuously? That is what I don't understand .

I don't think it makes a difference really. Your half dozen is my six.

Instead of a continuous drip that equals the lowest evaporation rate (this is how you do it if memory serves, right Dave?) where you have saturated water entering equalling 40 cc in an hour, I have two events in an hour entering 20cc saturated RO each time using an Osmolator.

 

[corigan]

I'm no expert but I use a 5 gal bucket with no top sitting there for days. I think the film does keep it in there as it holds my parameters stable. Like I said no expert, but have never had a problem with an open air storage container and have done so for over 2 years.

 

[grouper therapy]

[
I don't see the difference myself except a slightly larger risk with an ato malfunction I guess. That is my point I can't figure out why ato would be more stable as some have stated. Makes no sense to me. I guess it would be if you had to mix it each time then drip it. How would it get more stable than a 24/7 drip?

 

[jaustin]

buy an ato with a back up switch....or two....lower risk that way. your dripping method is stable IMO if you constantly do it. I don't see a problem with what your doing at all if it's not a pain in the butt for ya, just stick with what your doing if your alk levels are stable. Don't fix it if it aint broke.

 

[grouper therapy]

gnashty;516182 wrote: I use about 2 tbls of kalk per gallon in my top off tank of my ATO. i evap about .5 gal a day from my 210. obviously this much kalk water at one time cant be stable, even with my weak mix. am i better off just dripping my kalk water via ato with surgical tubing?

To answer your question.Regardless of the means by which you obtain your your kalk, the most stable and safest way to dose it in my opinion is to drip it all day everyday. My mixing and topoff water is all automated which is no different than a reactor I suppose except I just dump the lime in the tank once every 3 months. I'm not sure why people with ato units with or without kalk attached and high evaporation rates don't drip top top off water. I would think that the less times that it had to cycle every day would be less chance of an overdose of kalk or fresh water either.

 

[weaglereefer]

So say I wanted to switch my setup to drip. I've already ordered the needle valve, and I can't find a pump that would be okay to run all the time but only pass a drop per second, or whatever I find my evap rate to be. I don't thinka MJ would like having all that head pressure all the time. On the other side, I could set up a gravity feed, but it would need a siphon started, however since my ATO container tops itself off twice a week, I can't see any reason why the siphon would ever break and need to be restarted.

This would also free up some space as I'd be able to get rid of one of the top off setups (I currently use one for kalk, one for RO/DI) on my system.

 

[grouper therapy]

au01st;516621 wrote: So say I wanted to switch my setup to drip. I've already ordered the needle valve, and I can't find a pump that would be okay to run all the time but only pass a drop per second, or whatever I find my evap rate to be. I don't thinka MJ would like having all that head pressure all the time. On the other side, I could set up a gravity feed, but it would need a siphon started, however since my ATO container tops itself off twice a week, I can't see any reason why the siphon would ever break and need to be restarted.

This would also free up some space as I'd be able to get rid of one of the top off setups (I currently use one for kalk, one for RO/DI) on my system.

Mine is gravity fed and top offed like you are speaking of.
I would do this as a precaution place the valve and other connections close to the reservoir and only run the tube over your sump that way if something were to come loose it would not dump into your sump.

 

[weaglereefer]

Well yeah, the kalk reactor would only have the effluent tube dripping in the sump, everything else will be outside the sump. I've been wanting to rearrange some things anyways, guess this is as good a time as any. Now to just play the waiting game on that stupid needle valve...