Lacking Trace Elements?

genesis

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So I've been doing some research on trace elements and also evaluating my tank historically. I'm convinced that I have a lack of trace elements in my reef and that has been one of the factors as to why my reef is not in its prime like previously.

Background-
Tank setup in Feb 2013 as a FOWLR. Tank broke down and moved from TX to GA in Feb 2014. Temporary setup from Feb to Apr 2014. Tank set back up Apr 2014. October 2014 converted over to a reef. October 2014-Mar 2015 reef was thriving. Was in the initial stocking phase of the tank with corals. Great coloration and growth,coralline algae explosion. Was experimenting with how the tank would do without my normal 25% monthly water changes from February 2015-May 2015. April is when I started seeing a negative change in the tank. Overtime coralline algae started to diminish, nuisance algae started increasing on the rocks and sandbed, corals stopped growing so rapidly, and they started to appear to be pale. My fully stocked zoa garden had melted away to only a couple paly colonies (April 2015). June 2015 did a large water change and ended no w/c experiment. Continued to stocked the tank with various types of corals. Old corals started to grow into colonies. Coloration was still looking pale. From then to now its been pretty much the same story.

MY THEORY- When my tank was FOWLR it had an abundance of major and trace elements. When I converted it over to a reef and continued my w/c schedule along with additional major element dosing and the tank was thriving. Tank was lightly stocked so not a high uptake. As I started my experiment with not doing w/c and continued to stock the tank the supply and demand got out of whack. The corals exhausted all the trace elements that were normally being replenished thru w/c. During this time I was still dosing the major elements but a lack of trace caused issues. In June I started back on my w/c schedule in combination with dosing major elements, but have still yet to reach my previous "glory days".

Current status-
Reef is 85% stocked with various SPS,LPS,softies, and inverts. Some frags, some colonies. Average growth overall, some minimal, some good. Coloration is still lacking as they all have a pale appearance. Monthly 25% w/c with Reef Crystals. Dosing major elements weekly with BRS Ca, Alk, Mg. Additional dosing- Aquavitro Fuel weekly.

Solution- I plan on for November to perform two 25% w/c biweekly and add to my dosing regiment Seachem Reef Trace. By doing this in theory it should give a good starting point and I will continue to cover all areas of coral demand by dosing major elements (BRS 3 part), trace elements(Seachem Reef Trace), and amino/vitamins(Aquavitro Fuel). On another note in my research I've found out that nitrate and phosphate levels play a factor in all of this as well..... This will be another area that I focus on as well. My current test kits don't allow me to get reading in the really low range as would be needed by a more advanced reefer. With my current test kits I'm able to conclude that nitrates are below 5 ppm and phosphates are below .25 ppm. I will be getting a Red Sea test kit that will give me more accurate numbers and if that's an issue rectify it as well.

Feel free to evaluate my statements and chime in on my theory. Am I hunting in the right area or could there be other factors causing the issue? Suggestions and opinions are welcomed!
 
Additionally I was able to get exact dates and information for this due to me maintaining a log, and having a video archive to reference from, my YouTube channel.

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I use to add a lot of trace elements from Red Sea. I can say that if you REALLY want to stay on top of it you 'll need a lot of test kits. (which, IMO is a lot of fun).
 
SnowManSnow;1056583 wrote: I use to add a lot of trace elements from Red Sea. I can say that if you REALLY want to stay on top of it you 'll need a lot of test kits. (which, IMO is a lot of fun).

I was looking into their color program but it also requires the test kit for accurate dosing
 
how much lower than 5 are your nitrates?

0 nitrate....

image.jpg
alt="" />

5 nitrate

image.jpg
alt="" />

just an idea
 
Sorry to interrupt, Russ, what is the name of that acro in the pic.I have one, its not colored up yet.Had for 8 months. Its a smooth skin. Poylps very little. Just would like to know the name of it.
 
Fishlips;1056671 wrote: Sorry to interrupt, Russ, what is the name of that acro in the pic.I have one, its not colored up yet.Had for 8 months. Its a smooth skin. Poylps very little. Just would like to know the name of it.

couldnt tell ya the type.
wish people would stop giving corals LE names like "the 5ppm nitrate banger"

ive been more of a fan of millies
 
Maybe we will call it purple with green poylps. LOL.
 
Fishlips;1056671 wrote: Sorry to interrupt, Russ, what is the name of that acro in the pic.I have one, its not colored up yet.Had for 8 months. Its a smooth skin. Poylps very little. Just would like to know the name of it.

Bonsai Acropora. Trend name is Garf Bonsai. Scientific is Acropora secale.
 
Genesis;1056575 wrote: So I've been doing some research on trace elements and also evaluating my tank historically. I'm convinced that I have a lack of trace elements in my reef and that has been one of the factors as to why my reef is not in its prime like previously.

Background-
Tank setup in Feb 2013 as a FOWLR. Tank broke down and moved from TX to GA in Feb 2014. Temporary setup from Feb to Apr 2014. Tank set back up Apr 2014. October 2014 converted over to a reef. October 2014-Mar 2015 reef was thriving. Was in the initial stocking phase of the tank with corals. Great coloration and growth,coralline algae explosion. Was experimenting with how the tank would do without my normal 25% monthly water changes from February 2015-May 2015. April is when I started seeing a negative change in the tank. Overtime coralline algae started to diminish, nuisance algae started increasing on the rocks and sandbed, corals stopped growing so rapidly, and they started to appear to be pale. My fully stocked zoa garden had melted away to only a couple paly colonies (April 2015). June 2015 did a large water change and ended no w/c experiment. Continued to stocked the tank with various types of corals. Old corals started to grow into colonies. Coloration was still looking pale. From then to now its been pretty much the same story.

MY THEORY- When my tank was FOWLR it had an abundance of major and trace elements. When I converted it over to a reef and continued my w/c schedule along with additional major element dosing and the tank was thriving. Tank was lightly stocked so not a high uptake. As I started my experiment with not doing w/c and continued to stock the tank the supply and demand got out of whack. The corals exhausted all the trace elements that were normally being replenished thru w/c. During this time I was still dosing the major elements but a lack of trace caused issues. In June I started back on my w/c schedule in combination with dosing major elements, but have still yet to reach my previous "glory days".

Current status-
Reef is 85% stocked with various SPS,LPS,softies, and inverts. Some frags, some colonies. Average growth overall, some minimal, some good. Coloration is still lacking as they all have a pale appearance. Monthly 25% w/c with Reef Crystals. Dosing major elements weekly with BRS Ca, Alk, Mg. Additional dosing- Aquavitro Fuel weekly.

Solution- I plan on for November to perform two 25% w/c biweekly and add to my dosing regiment Seachem Reef Trace. By doing this in theory it should give a good starting point and I will continue to cover all areas of coral demand by dosing major elements (BRS 3 part), trace elements(Seachem Reef Trace), and amino/vitamins(Aquavitro Fuel). On another note in my research I've found out that nitrate and phosphate levels play a factor in all of this as well..... This will be another area that I focus on as well. My current test kits don't allow me to get reading in the really low range as would be needed by a more advanced reefer. With my current test kits I'm able to conclude that nitrates are below 5 ppm and phosphates are below .25 ppm. I will be getting a Red Sea test kit that will give me more accurate numbers and if that's an issue rectify it as well.

Feel free to evaluate my statements and chime in on my theory. Am I hunting in the right area or could there be other factors causing the issue? Suggestions and opinions are welcomed!

I don't think your issue is trace element depletion. It would be nutrients. Paleness only occurs from lack of nutrients and extreme light. If you aren't experiencing excelerated growth then there is no way it has been consumed.
 
MarquiseO;1056697 wrote: I don't think your issue is trace element depletion. It would be nutrients. Paleness only occurs from lack of nutrients and extreme light. If you aren't experiencing excelerated growth then there is no way it has been consumed.

+1

my experience as well.
 
Russ-IV;1056670 wrote: how much lower than 5 are your nitrates?

0 nitrate....

image.jpg
alt="" />

5 nitrate

image.jpg
alt="" />

just an idea

Wow that's a big difference! Needless to say most of my coral do look like the first pic. I only have an API test kit for Nitrates and Phosphates as of right now. When I test, it doesn't change from the lowest reading which is 0 ppm on the Nitrate and 0 ppm on phosphate. I plan on getting the Red Sea test kit to get a more accurate number of each.
 
Russ-IV;1056679 wrote: couldnt tell ya the type.
wish people would stop giving corals LE names like "the 5ppm nitrate banger"

ive been more of a fan of millies

LOL :lol2:I couldn't agree more, but coincidentally your new name has been adopted to the database and the cost of this coral just rose to 6x it's original value.
 
MarquiseO;1056695 wrote: Bonsai Acropora. Trend name is Garf Bonsai. Scientific is Acropora secale.

I have this coral as well. Got a piece of it from Neptune's Reef months ago. It looked like the 5 nitrate picture but since being in my tank it looks like the 0 nitrate pic
 
MarquiseO;1056697 wrote: I don't think your issue is trace element depletion. It would be nutrients. Paleness only occurs from lack of nutrients and extreme light. If you aren't experiencing excelerated growth then there is no way it has been consumed.

I'm convinced that your and Russ statements are true. I'm not sure exactly where on the low end are my nitrates and phosphates. I can also vouch as to extreme light could have played a factor as well. Back in June I added 4 t-5s to my 3 led fixtures. There was no light acclimation period and it wasnt until last month that I started making adjustment to the intensity and photo period of each to find the right balance. My growth was abnormal in a way. Some corals were experiencing rapid growth and others just stagnant. I guess when I get some low range test done it will really lead me in the right direction.
So what you and Russ are saying is that corals prefer a little bit of Nitrates but to keep phosphates low?
 
Genesis;1056707 wrote: I have this coral as well. Got a piece of it from Neptune's Reef months ago. It looked like the 5 nitrate picture but since being in my tank it looks like the 0 nitrate pic

Get a Red Sea Nitrate test kit. You can get the pro if you want but the the regular one is fine because anything below 2ppm isn't good. For phosphates, get the Hanna checker Ultra low phosphorus. It has 1ppb accuracy. Convert ppb to ppm with this formula: Checker Reading x 3.066 / 1000
 
i cant speak for marquis.

i follow redfield ratio (lightly)
basically phyto and other algae/dinos consume carbon, nitrate, phosphate in a 105:16:1 ratio uptake.
before you get our your beaker and lab coat just get trates between 2-5ppm and just traceable phosphate. .02 is generally where mine is.

some dose aa for the carbon portion, however cyano comes up whenever i tried it.

alk should be closer to NSW if you start witnessing alk burn due to the low nutrients. higher nutrients can bump alk more and up the light energy forcing photosynthesis.

pretty simple.
like everything else i post. just an opinion / experience. your mileage will vary.
 
MarquiseO;1056710 wrote: Get a Red Sea Nitrate test kit. You can get the pro if you want but the the regular one is fine because anything below 2ppm isn't good. For phosphates, get the Hanna checker Ultra low phosphorus. It has 1ppb accuracy. Convert ppb to ppm with this formula: Checker Reading x 3.066 / 1000

Red Sea sells the Algae Control Kit which has the Nitrate and Phosphate test kits in one. Do you think this would suffice or would getting the Hanna Checker be worth it?
 
Genesis;1056709 wrote: I'm convinced that your and Russ statements are true. I'm not sure exactly where on the low end are my nitrates and phosphates. I can also vouch as to extreme light could have played a factor as well. Back in June I added 4 t-5s to my 3 led fixtures. There was no light acclimation period and it wasnt until last month that I started making adjustment to the intensity and photo period of each to find the right balance. My growth was abnormal in a way. Some corals were experiencing rapid growth and others just stagnant. I guess when I get some low range test done it will really lead me in the right direction.
So what you and Russ are saying is that corals prefer a little bit of Nitrates but to keep phosphates low?

I don't think it's your lighting. I use 8 t5 bulbs with (2) reef brite XHO units which is overkill and haven't had a lighting issue; neither did the photo acclimate. You need nitrates and phosphates. Just keep your phosphates around 0.02-0.03ppm and your nitrates at 2ppm-6ppm. TBH you can even go higher with the nitrates but you must have the phosphates in that range. The nitrates will deplete faster than the phosphates when you carbon dose.
 
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