mandarin fish and QT

[jdavid]

Okay so I have a Tang and a green mandarin that need to be QT. I have two 55 longs, a 90 RR, a 29 cube, and an 8 cube. Right now all my corals are in the 8 g with a small snowflake clown (tight fit, but they are OK)

The 29 is the DT.
The 29 is seeded with pods and BBS.

Marine Ich is in the DT. I need to remove EVERY fish to be sure that the MI can not complete it's lifecycle, and I know, mandarins do not usually get ich because of the thick slime coat, but if even one gets in the gill, the MI lifecycle will continue.

To remove the mandarin fish from the DT is to seperate him from his food. He is a a happy hunter.

I figure I could set up a pod factory, to feed the QT tank, but I would need a small heater, as I saved some pods when I seeded the DT to start one and they died w/o a heater.

any suggestions?

 

[shanepike]

For what it's worth, the only fish I lost to ich was a mandarin.

 

[jdavid]

Yeah I think I saw him scrape off the sandbed, but I don't know if that was him attacking a larger pod.. he hunts the small ones in a calm manner so I have never seen him do that. regardless, The MI is in the DT and it needs to be fishless. Meanwhile my corals can grow. so I need to get the fish in to QT, leave the healthy snowflake in the 8, (get rid of the yellow tang), move the corals to the 29, let it run fishless for 16 weeks while doing hypo salinity in the QT, then move the snowflake and the mandarin back into the 29. Lot of work and $, but that is the price you pay when you do not QT fish. All could have been prevented with a little research. At a LFS I was told.. "Ich is like a cold" when in reality MI is more like.... a parasite that kills fish.

Gotta feed the mandarin in the QT though.

 

[jef4y]

Try using Rods food and Nutrimar OVO. Mandarins are very receptive to both.


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[jef4y]

Whatever you do, do NOT medicate the QT with the mandarin in it. You will kill it.


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[jdavid]

I have decided that I am going to go with an extended period of hyposalinity. Have read combining treatments is a recipe for failure. I'm going to look into the foods, Thanks Jef4y

 

[sea atlanta]

JeF4y;854625 wrote: Whatever you do, do NOT medicate the QT with the mandarin in it. You will kill it.


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Well, that depends on what you mean by "medicate". We use several different medications when Mandarins are in QT. When necessary.

 

[jdavid]

Could you elaborate on your QT process for mandarins, do you give them pods or do they usually take prepared foods? What kind of medication do they receive, and what makes it necessary for the medication to be given? Would you recommend medication combined with long term hyposalinity?

Yesterday the tang looked bad: he had so much MI on him that I was afraid it was going to kill him. It wasn't easy an I had to destroy my scape but I fished him out and gave him a bath in RO/DI water. When I returned him to the DT, he had only a couple spots left and ate a bunch of instant ocean algae blend.

I need to fill up a QT for treatment was trying to wait for RO water but I will probably just use tap and prime

 

[sea atlanta]

JDavid;854713 wrote: Could you elaborate on your QT process for mandarins, do you give them pods or do they usually take prepared foods? What kind of medication do they receive, and what makes it necessary for the medication to be given? Would you recommend medication combined with long term hyposalinity?

Yesterday the tang looked bad: he had so much MI on him that I was afraid it was going to kill him. It wasn't easy an I had to destroy my scape but I fished him out and gave him a bath in RO/DI water. When I returned him to the DT, he had only a couple spots left and ate a bunch of instant ocean algae blend.

I need to fill up a QT for treatment was trying to wait for RO water but I will probably just use tap and prime

Unfortunately, QT is not a cookie cutter template. Different situations require different actions. Sometimes reactions aren't good enough, sometimes you need to be proactive and prophylactic. It all depends on the species, the issue, and the diagnosis. And that's not something that can just easily be layed out in directions.

Something to consider: quite a few people are using the term "quarantine" out of context. A quarantine tank is a tank set up in isolation of existing displays. It doesn't necessarily mean treatment at all. If you are going to set up a "treatment" tank, that is another issue. However, regardless of intent, there is really no way around that quarantine and/or treatment will require a very strong grasp and foreknowledge.

 

[jdavid]

The problem is that there is so much contradicting information on the subject. Yes, I meant HT, but the same tank will be used for QT new fish and HT if I observe a parasite/affliction.

If I lose another fish, it won't be because someone gave me advice. Rather than instructions, I was just wondering what you have done in the past that has worked for you. I understand that it doesn't mean it will work every time.

I imagine 16 weeks in 1.009 should do the trick, I know that might not be practical for LFS but that is the plan to cure both the fish and the DT. Or I might drain the DT and run vinegar through it and start fresh while the fish are in the HT.

 

[sea atlanta]

JDavid;854719 wrote: The problem is that there is so much contradicting information on the subject. Yes, I meant HT, but the same tank will be used for QT new fish and HT if I observe a parasite/affliction.

If I lose another fish, it won't be because someone gave me advice. Rather than instructions, I was just wondering what you have done in the past that has worked for you. I understand that it doesn't mean it will work every time.

I imagine 16 weeks in 1.009 should do the trick, I know that might not be practical for LFS but that is the plan to cure both the fish and the DT. Or I might drain the DT and run vinegar through it and start fresh while the fish are in the HT.

Yes, that is rather exactly my point. There <u>IS</u> methods of effective quarantine and treatment, as well as ineffective ones. And those who preach ineffective one do not know or acknowledge that, in my mind.

That being said, there is no advice I can give you for general, vague "quarantine". Each situation merits a different solution. And even the prophylactic treatments these fish go under is specific to species.

FYI- I can say this, i think using hyposalinity as a method of disease control is ineffective and I dont rely on that AT ALL.

 

[jdavid]

Okay well thanks for telling me what doesn't work in your opinion. Maybe if you had a solution other than come to the store and then I will tell you what to buy that would be helpful. The situation is I have a yellow tang and a green mandarin and there is ich in the display tank. They need to be treated. That's not too vague.

 

[sea atlanta]

JDavid;854836 wrote: Okay well thanks for telling me what doesn't work in your opinion. Maybe if you had a solution other than come to the store and then I will tell you what to buy that would be helpful. The situation is I have a yellow tang and a green mandarin and there is ich in the display tank. They need to be treated. That's not too vague.

I apologize if asking you to come to the store to discuss it is "bad advice". Good luck.

 

[crewdawg1981]

JDavid;854836 wrote: Okay well thanks for telling me what doesn't work in your opinion. Maybe if you had a solution other than come to the store and then I will tell you what to buy that would be helpful. The situation is I have a yellow tang and a green mandarin and there is ich in the display tank. They need to be treated. That's not too vague.

... I think he was actually trying to say "There is a lot to discuss/ways to approach. Come to the store and we can talk face to face to address your issue."

Simma down mane.

 

[jdavid]

JeF4y;854625 wrote: Whatever you do, do NOT medicate the QT with the mandarin in it. You will kill it.


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I have read that scaleless fish or fish with less scales do not do well with copper

 

[ryansg1986]

Way to go....

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[peachyreef]

Mandarins are not good at handling copper. I think this is largely because of their diet (invertebrates) rather than the fact that they are scaleless (although that plays a role in their sensitivity). I have worked with eels, scaleless, that did just fine in low does copper situations.
I think the best thing you can do is to keep the appetite of your fish healthy. I would not recommend doing regular FW dips, those should be on an as needed basis because they are extremely stressful. They do immediately help remove parasites but the stress can lower the immunity of the fish putting them at greater risk.

Future preventative measures:
UV sterilizers are great at eliminating excess parasites and microbes. They will not eliminate outbreaks but they will aid in keeping them in check. This is important with species that are prone to infectious disease outbreaks, such as tangs.
Buy QT'ed fish if you cannot QT (general rule of thumb that you know )
Get some biological cleaners!

Treatment options:
There are natural treatment options as well as chemical options. Cleaner shrimps and fishes do aid in keeping parasites in check. They are not guaranteed to work and they will more than likely ignore your mandarin due to their thick slime coat and size. They do however respond quite well to tangs. Copper and formalin are chemical options for combating parasites. When treating any parasite you are essentially delivering a dose of poison small enough to kill the parasite but not the fish. Which is why you must be careful and follow dosing instructions!

My recommendation:
Separate the Mandarin into his own tank loaded w BBS. Give him a few dips and watch his behavior as well as appearance. If he seems to get worse lower the salinity and do infrequent dips (maybe chemical ones, but that is your call). Keep him eating. I would not recommend long dose chemicals due to their need of live inverts/sensitivity.
The tang and clown would be fine in a low dose chemical with FW dips as needed (sparingly). Again, we are trying to build their immunity to get over the parasite.
In the DT, I would just let the parasite naturally die off. If you run vinegar you are going to re-cycle. Since you have corals, that is not a great option. It would be like breaking down the tank and restarting chemically. I would also invest in animals/equipment that could aid in disease prevention. Especially because you know it is in your system now.

This is just my opinion based on my LFS/Aquarium experience. It is situational, and it does not guarantee that your fish will live. But I hope I gave you some ideas
-Elizabeth