need advice

[hughes81]

We purchase a 110 gallon tank a few months ago. We set the tank up and let it cycle. We've done water test weekly since we set it up. Ph,nh3,no2,no3 zero out a little over two weeks ago. We went to the fish store and bought some clown fish. Two days later one laying on bottom dead. Check ph, nh3,no2 all zero, no3 was 5.0ppm. Go back to fish store, owner suggest getting a couple of damsel due to cost. They have been in there for a week now. Tonight when we fed them everybody eating swimming fine. A hour later one of the damsel's is swimming in a corner. Started looking at him and it was just circling 5 min later he's dead. I checked the four test all were 0 except no3 was 20.0ppm. We have also noticed that our clown has a white spot on his face not sure if we should be concrened by that or not. We are new to the hobby and want to make sure we are being good fish owners any advice will help.

Also the temp stays between 77-79 depending on which light is on and the specific gravity is at 1.024


Thanks in advance

 

[butch]

First, don't add anymore fish. I would take a sample of water to the fish store to have them test it to validate your numbers. How did you cycle your tank?

 

[raz0945]

How long did you acclimate the fish? What was the PH & Salinity of the water in the store bag? Most stores have the Salinity between 1.017-1.026, that can make a big difference on how long you acclimate them. There can be a big difference on PH too!

 

[rdnelson]

You have mentioned a couple times tht PH was 0. That tells me you are not testing correctly because PH can not be 0. Also, the fact your Nitrate is climbing like that tells me you have a high ammonia source in there somewhere.

I agree with Butch. Don't plan on adding any more fish until you sort this out.

 

[hughes81]

This might be stupid on our part but I do not know what the Ph was. However before we added fish we took a water sample in to the fish store and everything was fine to add fish. We let the tank cycle for a month with live rock and we added bacteria that was recommend by the fish store. As for the salinity is 1.024 and that is what the fish were acclimated to. We bought the damsels one week ago and 2 of 4 have suddenly died and our clown died over night and we had him for 2 wks. All of the fish have game from the same store and the owner has been very helpful and seems to know what he's talking about I would assume since we really only know a little.

Edit: I'm sorry the Ph has been at 8.2-8.3 I miss spoke before I checked our log. All other levels were at 0 until yesterday when the no3 was 20 ppm.

 

[edulover]

How are you acclimating the fish? Are you just floating them or did you drip acclimate them? A nitrate of 5-20 ppm with no Ammonia won't kill your fish if you acclimate them correctly. Also, where did you get the tank? Was there any copper or other chemicals used in the tank? It is usually very hard to kill damsels even if you want to....I'm not sure what could be going on here. I would agree not to add any fish until you get this sorted out.

 

[rdnelson]

No disrespect to the store you have been going too and I wouldn't post the name on this thread (would not be fair to them) but, I would take a sample to another reputable store and ask them to do a "Detailed" water test. I don't know the stores on your side of town that well but if you could make it over to Avarium on a day when Dylan (Rippedtide) is working, he not only will do a test you can trust but is a wealth of knowledge.

 

[hughes81]

We are just floating them 15-20 min. We bought the tank off criagslist and we cleaned with water no chemicals. When we removed to damsel last night I looked him over and his lower jaw was split. Also not sure if this makes a difference but I'm laying it all out there just want my fish not to die but we bought 2 coral frags over the week end and added them. The other 2 domino damsels are doing great
( right now) We have noticed some aimptasia anemones on some of the live rock could this be the problem or part of it? I feel like such an idoit!

Edit: I have actually met Dylen. Great guy I'm going to go over today and see him. He is the one that help us on how to set the tank up.

 

[rdnelson]

The aptasia is not the problem with the fish but will become a problem for corals down the road. Take this time now to read up on how to kill it off and work on that. In the meantime, do lots of reading on this forum and other sources. Please understand that I am not trying to be mean here but if you are floating only, it tells me you have not learned enough to really start with fish. That is ok though, we all have to start some place and we all make mistakes. The key is to learn from them.

For aclimation, the best method is to drip aclimate. Take a small air line hose, put a shut off valve on one end. Put your fish in a small bucket with the store water. Put the end without the valve in your tank and start a siphone into the bucket. Adjust the shut off valve so you get about 1 drop of water every second or so. Leave it that way for at least 1 hour if not more. During that time, drain a some water out of the bucket every now and then. This will bring the water in the bucket to the sam parameters as the water in the tank over a long period. That gives the fish time to adjust to it. By floating them and dumping them in, they have adjusted to the temp but not all the other water chemistry. That is a big shock to them and unless they are extreamly healthy and strong they will suffer. Stand in a freezer for an hour and then jump in a hot tub. That would give you an idea of what the fish would be going through.

 

[hughes81]

Would this cause them to die a week later? And yes we have a lot to learn. I guess we have received ill advice on how to acclimate.

Edit: Also the nitrate being at 20 ppm could this be an issue? We started our tank with tap water and everything I've read said that could result in high nitrates. We are adding strore water (Fresh) because our high light is causing us to loose about 1/2 gallon a day.

 

[rdnelson]

It could weaken the fish enough that they may expire a week later or that they may be more prone to other diseases which they otherwise would have fought off. One thing I failed to mention in my previous post is never dump the water that came with the fish into your tank. At the end of acclimating, use a small net to transfer them to the tank. That way, if anything was in the stores water it doesn't get in your tank.

A nitrate level of 20 should not kill them but isn't good for them. If they are weak and fighting something off, it makes it that much harder. It is best to get that down to as close to 0 as you can. The best way to do that is with regular water changes of 10% every week. Some do 20% every two weeks and some use other methods that are for more advanced people.

The tap water may have undesirable things in it. At the least, it most likely has high phosphate levels which will feed algae growth. Buying fresh water and salt water from the store is a good option but not the best. The quality of water from some stores sometimes suffers. A better option is to get your own RO/DI and make your own fresh water. Using that, choose a good salt and mix your own salt water. Good units can run a couple hundred but there is a good starter option for about $75 that I could point you too. It worked well for me for sometime until I could afford a mac daddy unit.

The good news is, you have already taken a very important step. You have accepted that you have a lot to learn. Now comes the hardest work. Research and gaining the knowledge. Without it, you will end up hating everything to do with your tank and waste a lot of money. But, if you put in the effort to learn, you will get to a point where it isn't hard to maintain a gorgeous tank.

 

[shanepike]

Are you doing water changes? If so, how much and how often?

Also, any idea whether there is enough oxygen in the water? Do you have water falling into a sump where it will pick up oxygen or any other way that oxygen will be introduced into the water?

 

[hughes81]

We have not done a real water change other than adding back due to water loss. The reason why is because the fish store told us not to. They told us with no fish in the tank there was no reason and not to do one for the first 2 weeks. Now that we are having such a problem with the tank we are going to do a water change.

There is about 1 inch between return drain and sump water level.

 

[mcphock]

In the day and age of the internet, don't pass up the humble book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Conscientious-Marine-Aquarist-Professional/dp/1890087998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344451071&sr=8-1&keywords=the+conscientious+marine+aquarist">Amazon.com: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists (Microcosm/T.F.H. Professional) (9781890087999): Robert M. Fenner, Matthew L. Wittenrich, Scott W. Michael, Alf Jacob Nilsen, Christopher Turk: Books</a>

Like, everyone has suggested, chill out for a bit and read. :) You've already mentioned that you're new to this hobby, so this will help ground you in the basics.

 

[ralph atl]

hughes81;787051 wrote: We have not done a real water change other than adding back due to water loss. The reason why is because the fish store told us not to. They told us with no fish in the tank there was no reason and not to do one for the first 2 weeks. Now that we are having such a problem with the tank we are going to do a water change.

There is about 1 inch between return drain and sump water level.

The water level in the sump should remain constant....add RO/DI water as needed to replace evaporation. Do a weekly water change with saltwater at around 1.26 of about 20 percent of your total water volume...every week. 25 if you have inverts corals...

Get a reactor for Rox carbon and get a good skimmer...

Also, post all your parems and equipment...and dosing...

 

[hughes81]

Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

 

[picoreefguy]

like everyone else has said so far take your time, go slow, read up, ask lots of questions, and water changes are your friends (although i havent talked to that friend in a while lol). oh and when you cycled what all did you do? did you add any food in the tank or put a table shrimp in or anything or add any source of waste? cause with out something to produce ammonia the bacteria will just sit there and "starve" to death and all that time may have been for nothing