Need help with new tank cycle questions

[shaned]

I have a 170 gal saltwater tank that had a refugium overflow which caused a big mess in my home .. long story but I had to start OVER again with my tank after the move. My livestock, fish, soft corals, etc are stored at a LFS locally but I now need to cycle my tank again to put the livestock back.

Question:
1. How long does it normally take to cycle a tank? The first time I used chemicals and damsels and it seemed to only take about 2 weeks. I'm now using live sand, rock, refugium, skimmer, sump, etc and the brown algae is gone but the GREEN algae (looks lot like grass) is growing everywhere!

2. Should I leave this green stuff alone, scrape it off the glass and let the filter do some work, or something else?

3. I've added 10 large turbo snails and a small green crab which are helping a little .. but still looks terrible. Should I add more snails or something else?

4. I've had my water tested at the LFS and it tests perfectly .. so why do I have so much green algae?

5. I still need to ADD the media filter and ultravoilet filter back leftover from my previous setup. Are these still needed since I have a reef tank with lots of live rock now? If so then what's a good brand and size to get for my 170 gal tank?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I just want to get it right this time. My last setup was great and had few problems .. until the leak in my floor!

Thanks VERY MUCH for your time and help! It seems like if I ask 6 people a single question I get 6 different answers. Hope I can find expert help in this forum with many good ideas and suggestions.

Shane Draper
678-662-6336 cell

 

[wbholwell]

Welcome, Shane. I'll try my best to help answer your questions.

1) Every tank is different, and will cycle differently. For example, if you set your tank up with live sand and cured live rock, you may not have a cycle at all, or you may have a series of small cycles. The only way to know your tank has cycled is when the water consistantly tests good for at least 1 or 2 weeks. You have a green hair algae problem because a) your water has nutients (phosphates & dissolved organics) in it, and b) you're running your lights. I would cut back dramatically on your lights.

2) I'd leave the algae alone for now b/c it's actally taking the undesired stuff out of your water. Do a few large water changes, set your skimmer to run wet, turn off the lights, and then</em> start removing the algae.

3) The turbo snails might not be able to keep up with the algae right now, but if you follow my advice I think they'll be able to.

4) Start testing your own water. Some stores use inferior tests, and of course you're trusting the employee to administer the test correctly. Also, I doubt they tested for phosphates. BTW, are you using RO/DI water for your saltwater makeup?

5) Media and UV filters are a matter of personal preference. I think most of the ARC members run carbon, some run GFO or purigen, and a few use a UV sterilizer. Personally, if I were in your place I'd immediately start using carbon and a polyfilter.

I hope I've been helpful, and good luck!

 

[xyzpdq0121]

+1 for Bryan... I do not think it can be said any better then that....

 

[ouling]

I would agree with the above post. Use massive amounts of carbon is good in this stage. I don't suggest you take your water to a LFS because they probably skip the expensive tests such as PO4, Mg, or NO4. If you have rocks and algea I would just not worry about nitrite or NH4 and just check the Nitrate often. When Nitrates stop going up, it means its time for a very very very big (80-100%)water change with RO/DI water and good qaulity salt. A UV in this stage of the game would help A GREAT deal because this is when you'll start seeing ich and other pathogens in your tank. If you used quality water such as RO+DI and did the 100% water change then the algea is not going to be a big problem. The macroalgea in the refugium would help take up some nitrate after the water change is done. Only algea you should see is the brown/green silica based diatoms that is on your glass. You can put corals in after the water change. I don't suggest any picky corals at this point tho. If you have nothing that need light in your tank then i would not turn them on until after the waterchange. You may need to do another 50% down the road becaues your biofiltration isn't setup yet. I actually ran a bioball setup in the 1st month to start the bio filtration in my system and to speed up the cycle.

I also suggest you use a liberal amount of phosphate sponge.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

ouling;55109 wrote: A UV in this stage of the game would help A GREAT deal because this is when you'll start seeing ich and other pathogens in your tank.

HUH?!? How do you figure?!?

 

[ouling]

Well because every saltwater tank I setup had this kinda problem. And when he starts to populate fish from different places, there probably will be something that comes in with them. New tank inhabitants can get stress more easily and easily infected. Thats how I rationalize my Ich problems. But I mean you can't loose with a UV except some added heat and $3-4 more on the electric bill.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

ouling;55120 wrote: But I mean you can't loose with a UV except some added heat and $3-4 more on the electric bill.

.....and the fact that they are not proven to work at the fow rates published in most of the makers instructions...
Case in point: You have a turbo twist 3X (9 watts) and the instructions tell you that you should run the flow through at 200gph +/- (I do not remember the exact number) but that would only have the contact time to kill bacteria. To kill Ich (if you can) the flow rate would need to be down in the 75gph range.

A QT tank would be a better solution for parasite and illness control, IMHO...

 

[ouling]

For a tank that size then I would suggest the 38W UV running with a Maxijet 1200. that way it'll kill just about everything coming through it.

 

[shaned]

THANKS for all the great advice!

May I ask where's a good place to BUY the 38W UV filter, and Maxijet 1200 and what does GFO mean for the media filter? Not up on all the acronyms yet! Also, I'm due for a BIG water change since it's been about 3 weeks now with the live rock and sand only. And yes, I use RO/DI water from a full house expensive filter system.

Another LFS suggested I use Stability from Sea Chem to add bacteria to the water for a faster cycle. Is this a good idea or not?

I live in Cumming, GA close to Lake Lanier but I can also buy online anytime.

Thanks again,
Shane

 

[xyzpdq0121]

I would question the Math on a 38Watt UV and a Maxi 1200... Before you waste your money.

As for the acronyms used, check out this thread: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5473">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5473</a>

Stability is an OK product, I would not use it but some people do. I do not think it is wirth the money. You are basically adding bacteria to the tank in hopes that they are alive and populate the tank. Same stuff as cycle I think. You tank will do it naturally and natural is much better IMHO. It takes about a month but it is time well spent. Spend that time reading everything you can on this site: [IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com">www.wetwebmedia.com</a> and be well informed when you get your fish back.

If you have any questions, just keep posting or feel free to PM.

 

[cameron]

I own a 36w and pump about 300gph through my 120g setup. I am still unconvinced that the UV will really help more than hurt. I run it simply precautionary because I did get ick in my tank, but there is no real proof these things actually do anything in a tank beyond killing both good and bad organisms. Will they get rid of ick? Probably not... better to run QT and go down that road.

 

[ouling]

A good UV running at 38W getting with water running through it at maxijet 1200 (240gph if account of pressure) will kill everything that runs through the unit that is not big enough for the eye to see. Again depending on the unit, water will spend many seconds in the unit before it comes out. All i'm saying is that it kills pathogens. Good or bad, it's going to be dead.

 

[cameron]

Ick as an example can produce thousands of organisms in a water column at any give time. The chance of getting every one through the UV is slim. Will it help possibly, but running water through the UV that slow you are likely killing pods, food, etc which are beneficial to the tank. I have done the reading and I do run one, but I have a hard time telling people it is a good investment when I have very little proof it really solves any problem and I know it causes some issues. This is one of those Panda type dicussions as recommending UV is almost faith based. It seems like a good idea, but on a cellular level to all the organisms such as zooplankton we have no idea what it is doing.

 

[ouling]

Well I only used the UV for 2 months and sold it. When the problem is gone, there is no point keep using the placebo. There are better way to kill ich, but i've tried everything and UV is just one of those things that I am willing to take a gamble on.

Do you need a UV when your tank is starting up? No
Is it good to have one in the case of an ich outbreak? Don't hurt!
Does it help clear up your tank and reduce algea and make everything live longer? Probably not. But I woudn't doubt that it will raise nitrate when you start using it.

 

[cameron]

I fall into the camp that once you have ick in the tank... you likely will always have ick in the tank. Parasites like these can be virtually impossible to rid yourself of and vary greatly between strains. I personally run UV to help clarify the water so I get a cleaner tank look as well as more PAR punching down into the water. I figure it if it nukes some ick and such even better.

 

[ouling]

My UV leaked electricity into my tank and I have to let it go. So far I had 3 things that leaked electricity in 6 months... No, not all of them are made in China; 1 was, ther other one was made in Taiwan, the Korlia was made in Italy.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

ouling;55522 wrote:

Do you need a UV when your tank is starting up? No

Then why would you recommend it for a new person starting out in the hobby (or getting back in)?

Better solution would be to read some articals on QT tanks and measures to prevent problem like Ich instead of "cures" that have not been proven to work and might cause just as much harm as good.

 

[cameron]

Agreed ick is best fought before getting into the tank as well as most other parasites. I would argue that hyposalinity in QT is by far a better way of nuking incoming parasites than UV.

 

[linda lee]

Xyzpdq0121;55545 wrote: Then why would you recommend it for a new person starting out in the hobby (or getting back in)?

Better solution would be to read some articals on QT tanks and measures to prevent problem like Ich instead of "cures" that have not been proven to work and might cause just as much harm as good.

Would it be beneficial to use a UV in a QT? Zap everything before it goes into the main system? Seems anything that is beneficial that is zapped in the fallout wouldn't matter, since you have all the goodie-goods in your main tank.

 

[triggerhappy8]

ouling;55539 wrote: My UV leaked electricity into my tank and I have to let it go. So far I had 3 things that leaked electricity in 6 months... No, not all of them are made in China; 1 was, ther other one was made in Taiwan, the Korlia was made in Italy.

Sounds like you are in desperate need of a grounding probe and a GFCI...