Ocellaris clown illness?

[nodoubt]

I purchased 3 ocellaris clowns a couple of months ago. After a week, noticed a white spot on one of the fish. I figured it was a scar from the battle for dominance. The white spot has no raise and I've noticed in the last week, it's turned a dark green and more Dark green spots have begun to appear on the scale and the side fins. The fish appears to be healthy, swimming, eating and vying for dominance with the onyx.

I can't tell if the other two are infected due to coloring. The one I see the "infection" on is bright orange.

The one who is faded black to orange sometimes behaves as if it is ill. I caught it sitting on the bottom of the tank a few weeks after purchase but, when I approached the tank, it began swimming with the others. it also hangs out against the glass on occasion but, always eats and is usually swimming like normal. It's smaller and tries to avoid the conflict in the domination game.

They were all about the same size when I got them. I'm not sure if 2 have grown or 1 has shrank but, it's very slight.

There is no anemone. Tank bred clowns and they don't seem to miss it.

There is debris in the tank, they don't have ich.
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[dawgface]

Here's my diagnosis

Most often either environmental or social/territorial trouble/s occur. Too much crowding. Clowns are NOT social animals... found mostly in pairs in the wild, and NOT found in close association with other Clown species by and large.

 

[nodoubt]

I had thought that they were social within their own species. The LFS assured me of that since they are all Ocellaris they would get along after deciding who the female is. It seem's they can't decide and I may actually now have 2 females.

It's possible I confused them hanging out in groups of 3 for cardinal fish; which I was thinking about getting as well.

I am open to giving one of the clowns up but, haven't been able to decide which one to give up. Since the spot on the side was originally white, I wanted to see if it got got better or worse before committing to an action.

Since it's gotten worse and I can't find any plausible diagnosis, other than population stress; I would like to offer one of them up. I'd like to keep the onyx.

If anyone is open to it; a $10 or an inexpensive bottom dwelling nano goby would be a nice trade.

 

[thanh386]

I have like 4 pairs of different clowns in my 25... I donno if I am lucky or u are unlucky. But I hope u find a solution.

 

[nodoubt]

With all the clowns I see in groups, if find it hard to believe they can't live together.

These guys seem to swim together, fight, go to their corners, forget what happened and start all over again. I do see an odd man out in the black/orange fish.

Edit: I found on 3reef, may be from the frogspawn

 

[dawgface]

They "can" reside together however it is very common for problems to occur. Thanh's example is more the exception than the norm unfortunately.

 

[captain copper]

This discussion brings to light an interesting question (at least, I find it interesting, maybe im just stupid). If clowns getting along is the exception, then what does it mean when a LFS has a single 40ish gallon tank with 30-40 clowns in it, that show no signs of illness/stress and seem to be getting along just fine.

 

[dawgface]

Captain Copper;709909 wrote: This discussion brings to light an interesting question (at least, I find it interesting, maybe im just stupid). If clowns getting along is the exception, then what does it mean when a LFS has a single 40ish gallon tank with 30-40 clowns in it, that show no signs of illness/stress and seem to be getting along just fine.

If you notice all of them are young and the alpha female has yet to establish. Ask that same fish store what heppens in 6 months if they don't sell any of them.

 

[captain copper]

DawgFace;709911 wrote: If you notice all of them are young and the alpha female has yet to establish. Ask that same fish store what heppens in 6 months if they don't sell any of them.

So the theory is that if the clownfish mature in a tank full of other clowns, deaths will be the result. I would be interested to see what goes on behind the scenes at a store to see if this is ever a problem they face.

 

[dawgface]

It's really not hidden...The ones they are unable to sell are plucked out and split up in pairs. Think about it, when that said fish store doesn't have one or two tanks full of juvi clowns, they generally have multiple tanks of sets or pairs of clowns.

 

[captain copper]

DawgFace;709917 wrote: It's really not hidden...The ones they are unable to sell are plucked out and split up in pairs. Think about it, when that said fish store doesn't have one or two tanks full of juvi clowns, they generally have multiple tanks of sets or pairs of clowns.

perhaps ive just gone in at the wrong time. Seems that usually the pairs i see are onyx, picassos, snowflakes. I guess the pairs of regular oscellaris are cheap enough that people buy them up quickly.

 

[dawgface]

Perhaps.

Ocellaris are also the least aggressive of the bunch. Which generally leads to more time before the necessary split.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

DawgFace;709911 wrote: If you notice all of them are young and the alpha female has yet to establish. Ask that same fish store what heppens in 6 months if they don't sell any of them.

Absolutely correct. It is commonplace to have to manage such groups due to aggression as they grow. Housing multiple clowns in a tank is possible, but there is a strong chance of aggression. Clowns in the wild will have multiples living in an anemone, but there is always a dominant male and female, and then the "extras" are smaller, subservient individuals that do not challenge the dominance. The chances of replicating this in the aquarium is very complicated, although possible. You'll just be risking loss and constant aggression.

 

[nodoubt]

So, at this point, do I offer up the little guy and let the 2 females decide who is going to be the boy again?

Edit: I could split in to my second tank but it's a 10 gal with a 4 stripe damsel and mantis shrimp. I can't imagine that being a less stressful situation.

 

[jamescook]

I'd keep the small one and one of the larger ones. The spots are probably from hosting corals.

 

[nodoubt]

jamescook;710020 wrote: I'd keep the small one and one of the larger ones. The spots are probably from hosting corals.

I'd agree with you there and from some of the research I've found but, I've yet to see them in any of the corals. Of course they always immediately come to the front of the tank when they see movement so, maybe I'm missing it.

This behavior does bring me to a question about feeding. I feed about every other day but, read about people feeding their fish up to 7 times a day. I think if I fed them more often, competition might relax but, the tank would then be a mess.

 

[jamescook]

It's best to feed small amounts of food more often. I feed continuously maybe you could try some pellets/flakes in the morning and meaty treats (frozen bs/mysis)in the evening

 

[nodoubt]

I can handle that on my days off but, when I work, I leave like 5 hours before lights on. That method will definitely work for the cardinal which doesn't bother with pellets. I've just been giving different frozen foods most of the time and sometimes a little extra pellet for the mad clowns.

 

[dawgface]

Get an automatic fish feeder. Easy to setup and even easier to use, hence automatic :lol2:Just make sure you don't let the batteries run dead.

 

[jennm]

The large groups you see at the LFS are juveniles. You will likely never see juveniles in with an established pair.

I often end up with lone females as people either trade in toward 2 juveniles (they want a pair), and unless I get a large group at once, I tend to tank them 2 to a tank so they can pair.

3's a crowd. Some months ago I had to remove the third wheel from a 120 where the keeper had 3 against my advice. The smallest one kept getting chased into the overflow, so their keeper finally agreed to let him go.

Back to the original post, the marks almost look like pigment - are there any sores or lesions? I've sometimes seen discoloration like that when they attempt to host in a new anemone or coral, and it usually goes away.

Jenn