Pics of the fragroom :)

[roland jacques]

Looks great, if you're going to paint the stand/table, think of the paint as protecting your metal hardware. The bare wood will not be a problem for many years but your metal braces ... will rust. Wholesalers use PT wood bare, it last 7-10 years and is very heavily used. I'd paint in for no other reason but to look as good as everything else.

 

[cameron]

Skriz;118555 wrote: I never ever ever touch my return pump, ever. Having said that, If I die, will you guys help my wife take care of the tank? :unsure:

If a pump has a full short, placing your hand anywhere in the tank can shock the piss out of you. Voltage in a tank is usually sitting there since the circuit isn't complete and it has nowhere to go. If you are grounded and not insulated (and shoes might not be enough), you are the circuit and that obviously is bad. Doesn't matter where your hand is in the tank either since salt water is a pretty good conductor.

As for the chiller on Mojo's system, I would run some kind of stiffining capacitor on the chiller. A cheap UPS or Line Conditioner would likely work well. I would still run a GFCI. You just need something to smooth out the input current when it is flipped on so there isn't a big drop.

 

[mojo]

Cameron;118583 wrote: If a pump has a full short, placing your hand anywhere in the tank can shock the piss out of you.

Only if the pump is submersible. If it's an external pump, this doesn't apply. (Just wanted to make sure anyone else taking notes understood this).

As for the chiller on Mojo's system, I would run some kind of stiffining capacitor on the chiller. A cheap UPS or Line Conditioner would likely work well. I would still run a GFCI.

You could, although I don't see much need. If a chiller is a fairly decent brand and isolates electronics from water, then IMO, the only thing you're accomplishing is possibly losing your chiller due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current">inrush current</a> tripping the GFCI. Most inexpensive (<$1000) UPS's these days won't give you true line conditioning for that short of a timeframe - they just flip a relay over when the power goes above or below a given amount. (Trivia: These used to be called SPS's until the industry realized that an average power supply had enough capacitance to not need the extra components, so they could make UPS's cheaper.)

Either way, I consider the chiller one of the most critical components on my tank. I don't care if there's a ground fault when it fires up - that'll be nothing compared to the 9 amps it pulls when it's on. If it throws the whole breaker, then that's fine- I have multiple circuits and a backup controller to shut off the lights...

 

[taftonomos]

I'm confused at this point. The way I wired up my circuits was that there was a GFI protecting all the outlets at the begining of the string.

What I'm reading suggests that I place a independant GFI to power the pump(s) seperatly?

My equipment on the sump circuit:
Dart return pump
4 MJ1200's modded
Wavemaker
500watts of heat controlled by a ranco
Skimmer pump

Should I have 2 GFI outlets then, one for the return pump and one for the rest? (planning on running it off a power panel ala American DJ)

I'm assuming since the lights don't touch the water I'm OK with just a single GFI running the whole string?

 

[james s_]

Your choice. Having multiple GFCI's allow each device to be protected without effecting the rest of the items on your circuit. The way you have it wired now everything on that circuit will turn off if anything should happen. (Anything that has been wired on the load side of the GFCI)

In your case yeah I would have a seperate GFCI. One for the Return Pump and one for the American DJ strip. That way you will always have flow in your tank as long as the Circuit Breaker is still energized. Just make sure you wire the second GFCI in series with the original and not by the load side.

 

[taftonomos]

I'll swing by the HD on the way to work and pick up another GFI

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[cameron]

Glad to help... 46 butter fingers did the hard part though.

 

[schwaggs]

Geehh;118560 wrote: You can run multiple GFCI's on a circuit. I've got a 20 amp circuit run to four switches (Powerheads, Return, Skimmer, & Lights), each switch has a GFCI outlet downstream so if the lights trip, for example, it doesn't take the pump out too.

Great suggestion!

 

[schwaggs]

mojo;118564 wrote: Just don't put your chiller on GFCI... I recently wired my sump room in the basement, and had every plug as a GFCI. The chiller (presumably because of the compressor) kept tripping it, so it needs to be changed to a normal plug...

Oh - and VERY nice!

I run my chiller on a GFCI without problems.

 

[schwaggs]

mojo;118592 wrote: You could, although I don't see much need. If a chiller is a fairly decent brand and isolates electronics from water, then IMO, the only thing you're accomplishing is possibly losing your chiller due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current">inrush current</a> tripping the GFCI. [/QUOTE]

I agree if your goal is to protect yourself from getting killed when you put your hand in the tank. Whats to protect you from an electrical short to the chassis of the chiller or when you touch the wrong thing or from a frayed wire? This is even more critical when you have close proximity to a good ground like in bathrooms, kitchens and basements.

[QUOTE=][B]mojo;118592 wrote:[/B] Either way, I consider the chiller one of the most critical components on my tank. I don't care if there's a ground fault when it fires up - that'll be nothing compared to the 9 amps it pulls when it's on. If it throws the whole breaker, then that's fine- I have multiple circuits and a backup controller to shut off the lights...[/QUOTE]

That is why you need to have your Aquacontroller progressivly turn off your lights when the tank temp gets higher than your chiller setting... :)

Also, don't forget, GFCI isn't total protection against getting shocked and killed.

 

[markl]

any updates?

 

[taftonomos]

Actually yes

alt="" />

I'ts plumbed up, and filling now.

I've got a slight leak around the bulkhead that rubbermaid included with the tank. I did remove the bulkhead before I filled it, and lubed it up (actually spit on it lol) so it didn't go on dry. I need to get a large pair of pliers so I can try and tighten in a bit more. By slight leak I mean about a drip every 20 mins.

I've got a 100gpd RO that never quite made that much, but we'll see. Hopefully I can secure the leak and let it fill overnight.

I'll get some better pics shortly.

The moving light rail is hung, the Ranco heater controller is mounted. Pump is isolated from the floor by a piece of styrofoam, then a rubber pad, then a piece of wood that it's mounted to. At least when I've run it dry it doesn't make hardly any noise...
I still need a DJ power strip, and I also need to move those GFI's down like we talked about above. I'll get on that tonight.

alt="" />

alt="" />

 

[calireefer]

Nice frag room. I am not a fan of running GFCI's on my pumps. I don't trust them to not trip when I'm out of town. Has anyone ever been killed by a pump. I think their designed to work underwater. I would be interested if anyone can dig up a link to a story about this happening.

 

[taftonomos]

dunno, but I'm not going to try and run that dart underwater

 

[johnr2604]

Here you go.

 

[johnr2604]

Sorry link didn't work but just google waterpump deaths. If you know the history of GFCI's and how it became code you would find that it was from multiple instances of deaths from water pumps in fountains etc.

 

[taftonomos]

Thats weird....

You know, the other day I was having trouble with my water cooler on my TIG machine. The motor was grounded on the plug, but also needed a bonding wire to the chassis of the machine.

I tried plugging the motor into the machine, it wouldn't work. I tried plugging it into a GFI outlet, and it tripped the gfi. I plugged it into a normal outlet, and it worked.

Basically, the TIG maching supplied the current to run the welder, but the grounding wire on the plug didn't ground the motor to the chassis. I found this out because with the motor plugged into the machine, it wouldn't work. I got pissed and kicked the motor, it made contact with the chassis of the machine, and sparks flew!

Moral of the story, make sure your junk is grounded. And don't mess with the fishtanks on a concrete floor without shoes either, thats a bad idea.

I'll run the pump off a GFI me thinks. I cant see why the GFI would randomly trip, unless something went wrong. I mean, once the pump is running, the load shouldn't really be changing all that much, if any right?

 

[taftonomos]

well, it's full now. Slight problem though. GC decided to put the bottom of the tank inside the outside walls, and they didn't do a very good job making sure it was perfectly square all the way around.

Since I wanted to use maximum space inside the tank, I cut the overflow boxes 3/4" from to top. Apparently if I stick my hand in the tank after it's full and running, I'll spill water out one corner.

Yes, the stand is level, and so is the bottom piece of glass. Thats what I get for only spending $550 for the tanks though...

So today I'll drain one side, and route down the overflow box another 3/4", then do the same to the other side.

Then it's time to mix more salt, turn on the heaters, and toss in some old water from my other tank and get this thing running

 

[calireefer]

Maybe your right. I would plan on them tripping every once in a while and use a battery back up for your circulation.
GFI are very sensitive and even momentary power surges in the electrical mains will result in them tripping (Sprung,Delbeck Reef Aquarium Vol. III )

 

[schwaggs]

I have been running my fish room circuits on GFCI for over 2.5 years and the ONLY time my GFCIs have tripped is when a short to ground was involved. If you buy quality GFCIs (not the 5 for $20 variety), they don't randomly trip. Also, the suggestion earlier in the thread to run multiple GFCIs on the circuit is a great idea. That way, one thing tripping will not take the entire circuit out.

Don't take your life in your hands and install circuits near water, outside or in basements without GFCIs, it isn't worth your life.