Question about overflow into Sump

[thbrewst]

I'm trying to make my set-up as quiet as possible. Thus far the only remaining significant noise is where my overflow drains release into the sump/fuge. In both cases the end of the pipe is ~2-3 inches above the water level which obviously causes a splashing sound.

Question, is there any legit oxygen input coming from this water drop or would it be OK for me to extend the pipe either to or slightly beneath the level of the water to stop this noise?

If is helps I have my sump set-up; Fuge->Return<-Drain/Skimmer. I T'd one of the drain lines to provide about 1/4 of it's flow to the fuge. I have valves to control this flow so I can increase/decrease it as needed.

Thanks for your input.

 

[weaglereefer]

See if you can get a 45 elbow and direct the water at the side of the tank, instead of straight down, and have it hit just at the water's surface.

You're likely getting more oxygenation from your skimmer, so I wouldn't worry about a lack of splashing.

 

[gnashty]

tagging along

 

[rolo65]

Filter sock...mine is set up the same way....the sock will slow the water just enough to quite it down.....plus youll still get the oxygenation....but get a few...like 4-5....bout 5$ ea or so....

 

[thbrewst]

rolo65;576682 wrote: Filter sock...mine is set up the same way....the sock will slow the water just enough to quite it down.....plus youll still get the oxygenation....but get a few...like 4-5....bout 5$ ea or so....

Actually already running a sock over each drain tube. It definitely cut things down some but is still making noticable noise.

To be clear, this is not an issue per se, but I am shooting for as quiet as I can get and this is the only thing remaining that I have not addressed.

 

[jbadd99]

I added a 2" wye on my drain, capped it, and drilled a small hole in the cap. Added a filter sock on the end of it. My overflow is louder now. It's nearly silent.

If you want a picture I'll get one up for you.

 

[thbrewst]

jbadd99;576930 wrote: I added a 2" wye on my drain, capped it, and drilled a small hole in the cap. Added a filter sock on the end of it. My overflow is louder now. It's nearly silent.

If you want a picture I'll get one up for you.

Yeah, a picture would be great, thanks.

 

[thbrewst]

BTW, never got a clear answer on whether or not it is ok to drain at or below the sump water level. Any negatives/risks to that?

 

[johnqx4]

thbrewst;576942 wrote: BTW, never got a clear answer on whether or not it is ok to drain at or below the sump water level. Any negatives/risks to that?

Done it for years. No problems.

johnny

 

[thbrewst]

johnqx4;576947 wrote: Done it for years. No problems.

johnny

Excellent. And do you run filter socks that way?

 

[johnqx4]

thbrewst;576970 wrote: Excellent. And do you run filter socks that way?

No I don't. Never really had a problem with it. I have generally found that if I:

1) always use the thicker PVC pipe (not the thin drain stuff) rated for pressure
2) Don't let the water fall straight down (have it roll/flow down the pipe) Helps if your pipes run at an angle (post before mentioned 45 degree angles).
3) pour below the water line in the sump
4) cover direct openings in the top

Things stay pretty quiet. you hear a little. but it is more like a peaceful stream. After a while, you won't even notice it.

If step 4 is unclear... I have constructed several overflows by drilling my own tanks. using PVC pipe if have sometimes left it open at the top (great place to put in additives or water without bending over or getting down to the sumps level). You have to make a cap for that, otherwise the long open pipe will act like a megaphone and send the sound back out the top.

one other thing. If you are lazy like me and you use a little marker for the high and low water marks on the sump, you can cut the drain pipe right to the low water mark. Then when/if you hear increased water noise, you know it is time to add water. either that or your sump has exploded:lol2:

ciao

johnny

 

[hnguyen]

I don't think having your drain under the water line is a good idea. I tried that with my old tank and it really slows down the amount of water your overflow can take down. I notice that by having it raised above water level it drains a lot faster. Although having it under or over water level shouldn't effect anything other then the flow part. I'll post a picture of how I did my drain on my new set-up to reduce noise later on tonight when I get home. I did a T with the drain and on each side of the T I have a 4 inch straight PVC coming out of it into an elbow of each side. Then I drilled holes into my straight PVC line to release some of the water as it travels through the line and into my sump. That reduces the force that the water from your drain will hit the water in your sump, thus greatly reducing the noise it will make.

 

[hnguyen]

Here's a couple of pictures I posted to help another member with the same problem.

 

[rbredding]

better yet... put a bulkhead "strainer" on the end of the pipe.. it will disrupt the flow just enough to keep it from splashing terribly and quiet the water drop..


I've got one that screws on...

 

[johnqx4]

Hnguyen;577004 wrote: I don't think having your drain under the water line is a good idea. I tried that with my old tank and it really slows down the amount of water your overflow can take down. I notice that by having it raised above water level it drains a lot faster. Although having it under or over water level shouldn't effect anything other then the flow part. I'll post a picture of how I did my drain on my new set-up to reduce noise later on tonight when I get home. I did a T with the drain and on each side of the T I have a 4 inch straight PVC coming out of it into an elbow of each side. Then I drilled holes into my straight PVC line to release some of the water as it travels through the line and into my sump. That reduces the force that the water from your drain will hit the water in your sump, thus greatly reducing the noise it will make.

I could see that point... But I (probably should have mentioned this use a 1/2 pipe return to the tank and 1.5 inch drain... Several times drain capability over return (albeit no pressure)... So I have never had a slow down problem like this affect me...

ciao

jg

 

[hnguyen]

johnqx4;577233 wrote: I could see that point... But I (probably should have mentioned this use a 1/2 pipe return to the tank and 1.5 inch drain... Several times drain capability over return (albeit no pressure)... So I have never had a slow down problem like this affect me...

ciao

jg

Good job with the 1.5" drain, but if you have a strong return pump, even a 1.5" drain could be over worked. Lets say your drain can drain 700g of water an hour but your return is pushing 1000gph, that could give you problems. Or lets say if your drain is draining just enough to match your return, now if you stick your pipe under the water line in your sump then now you have too much return and not even drain. That all just really depends on how strong your pump is and how your set-up is. IMO.

 

[jef4y]

Reverse Durso.. google it =)

 

[johnqx4]

Hnguyen;577239 wrote: Good job with the 1.5" drain, but if you have a strong return pump, even a 1.5" drain could be over worked. Lets say your drain can drain 700g of water an hour but your return is pushing 1000gph, that could give you problems. Or lets say if your drain is draining just enough to match your return, now if you stick your pipe under the water line in your sump then now you have too much return and not even drain. That all just really depends on how strong your pump is and how your set-up is. IMO.

That is true. But then again, isn't it always? I definitely see your point. drain capacity always needs to exceed return capacity (otherwise the floors take a beating, as would I from my wife :bash:

That is the reason I keep a valve on my return pump (to pipe a bit back into the sump) There are many ways to control it. Additional or larger drains also solve the problem. But assuming you account for the flow ratios (which you have to do in any case), draining below the water line will be much quieter.

And for those that like the BF & I (Brute Force and Ignorance) method (of which I myself have been accused Turn it on. If water pours all over the floor, you have a ratio problem :lol2:

Or your sump exploded...

ciao

jg

 

[hnguyen]

Agreed with the flooding. When I started my 45g. I ran a 1" drain with a mag. 7 and had water flood all over right when I turned the pump on. So now I run a 1.5" drain on my 120g with still a mag 7 and it does fine. I did the T as I posted above for my drain to the sump and I don't hear a thing with my stand doors closed. My skimmer return makes more noise and thats the only thing I hear.

 

[rbredding]

Hnguyen;577239 wrote: Good job with the 1.5" drain, but if you have a strong return pump, even a 1.5" drain could be over worked. Lets say your drain can drain 700g of water an hour but your return is pushing 1000gph, that could give you problems. Or lets say if your drain is draining just enough to match your return, now if you stick your pipe under the water line in your sump then now you have too much return and not even drain. That all just really depends on how strong your pump is and how your set-up is. IMO.

although certainly possible (but not probable unless you're talking about 50' of piping or more), you'll only send 850gph through your returns (1/2" pipe with no greater than 100psi pressure).. and the gravity drain flow "theoretical max" of a 1.5" pipe is NOT attainable in the type of weir overflows that we all use...

realistically speaking, it's VERY possible for a 1/2" return to outwork a 1.5" overflow..

(the 1.5" overflow will move 2100gph in a gravity drain system, however to reach that flow, your overflow would require no restrictions (dursos) and it would have to be completely submerged) &lt;- a catastrophic situation for our application )