Question on water pumps

[cmjazz89]

I'm working on getting my 125g RR tank up and running and I'm trying to decide on which water pump to use. Currently I'm looking at:

Quiet One 6000 - 1506 GPH
or
Oceanrunner 6500 - 1700 GPH

First question is if this is enough flow for the tank and 2nd if these are good pumps to go with. Any input is greatly appreicated.

jazz :fish:

 

[mufret]

What's the configuration of the tank (size and number of overflows, what are you planning on keeping in the tank, will you have additional flow, etc.)?

 

[cmjazz89]

It's a 125g RR tank that has 2 overflows and is drilled with 2-1" bulkhead holes in each overflow (total 4). Sump is going to be a 55g tank and I'm trying to determine the return pump for the tank that will go up 4'.

The tank is going to be setup to support a variety of corals.

Big D, I thought a min. 10x the water volume for turn around is required or did I read something wrong (wouldn't be surprised!) Is the range of 1000-1200 gph more appropiate?

 

[george]

In my opinion, 20x turnover is a target minimum for almost any tank. Not necessarily for the corals, but for good gas exchange. In your case, I'd say get a pump for return that will do 600-800 gph for return and some circulation pumps like Tunzes or Hydors to provide your actual turnover.

The lower gph through your sump will allow for greater dwell time and let your skimmer max out its efficiency.

 

[sj miller guy]

Do a little research on the Quiet One pumps. When I did, I found customer review after review that blue these pumps to shreads. They do not self prime, so when you shut them off for maintenance or the power goes out...people claim they're a PITA to get restarted.

Mag drive pumps have always worked wonders for me.

 

[cmjazz89]

The only bad thing I've heard about the mag drives is there wattage use and heat.

 

[dannybradley]

SJ Miller Guy;61724 wrote: They do not self prime, so when you shut them off for maintenance or the power goes out...people claim they're a PITA to get restarted.

That's a misconception. Pentair put out a large batch of Quiet One pumps with incorrect bearing sizes. This caused the pumps startup problems. If you contact Pentair, they'll send you replacements for free. I had this effect 3 pumps I was running. A quick email fixed the problem.

Other than that, I go back and forth between Mags and Quiet Ones. I like how heavy the mags are because they stay in place better. QOs are much quieter. Mag Drives have proved harder on their impellers and I've also seen the screws on them rust more than once.

One of my clients has a 120g running on a QO 6000. That thing cranks out pleny of flow through two overflow boxes without an issue. Each AGA overflow box is rated for 600GPH, so at 1506gph - head pressure, they're coming somewhere close. A 125 will have more head than a 120.

One other thing to keep in mind - Why not use two smaller pumps? This gives you redundancy in case one fails. Extra power consumption and heat(if managable) are worth the peace of mind.

 

[dorian965]

i have 2 pumps i was going to use on my 125. an iwaki 55 rlt and a genx 70. would sell them at a pretty good price. both presure rated. the iwaki for return would put you around 1000 gph and the gen x for a closed loop at around 1400-1500 gph.
as stated before- return may be a little high. i was going to split off the return for a feed to my fuge and frag tank.

pm me if your interested. dorian

 

[james s_]

I use a mag9.5 on my 125.It is a bit too much flow for my overflow,but seeing you will have two 1 inch drains,you would be fine with anything less then 1200gph.

 

[dannybradley]

46bfinga;61783 wrote: you will have two 1 inch drains,you would be fine with anything less then 1200gph.

That's incorrect. You forgot to calculate for head pressure. 1506GPH will not be too much on two overflows. Like I said, I have a client with a 120(48x24x24) running on a Quiet One 6000 at 1506GPH with great flow.

 

[james s_]

DannyBradley;61841 wrote: That's incorrect. You forgot to calculate for head pressure. 1506GPH will not be too much on two overflows. Like I said, I have a client with a 120(48x24x24) running on a Quiet One 6000 at 1506GPH with great flow.

Yeah but does the pump actually put out 1506gph at the returns?ummm no, A 1" pipe is generally good for around 600gph.So yes you do have to take head presure into consideration.But why max out your overflows if you dont need to.Your looking for 3-5 x turnover on a sump return.Anything more then that is not benefiting your tank.

Either way CMJazz,good luck with your tank!

 

[cmjazz89]

I was thinking maybe 2:
Quiet One pumps
model_ max. _______ gph _watt
3000_ 10 ft 1" MPT _780 _40
one for each overflow for return. which with head pressure should be around 500 gph each.

 

[dannybradley]

46bfinga;61854 wrote: Yeah but does the pump actually put out 1506gph at the returns?ummm no, A 1" pipe is generally good for around 600gph.So yes you do have to take head presure into consideration.But why max out your overflows if you dont need to.Your looking for 3-5 x turnover on a sump return.Anything more then that is not benefiting your tank.

Either way CMJazz,good luck with your tank!

How is more waterflow not benefiting your tank? A stronger system pump means less peripheral devices. You have less powerheads to place, need less power outlets, and less cords to run. More water flow through a sump cathces more detritus, brings a constant flow of organic laden water to the skimmer, oxygenates the water better, and more goes through your chemical media, causing it to remove what you want to faster.

The only cases where slower flow might be beneficial is when you're running a downdraft skimmer.

 

[schwaggs]

DannyBradley;61864 wrote: How is more waterflow not benefiting your tank?

I think the point is you really only need the equivilent of 4-5 times tank capacity through your sump to keep it heated/cooled/skimmed/etc. There are more efficient, less heat inducing ways of getting flow IN the display (CLS, Tunze Streams, etc) without using a huge return pump.

 

[cmjazz89]

ok I think I have it now it now and I agree with Big D on this for 2 seperate systems. I'm thinking of a quiet pump 4000 @ 5ft is about 700 gph. I'll put in a T to go to both overflows for the return. For the water circulation, I'm thinking ph's or a cls.

Now a 3000 @ 5ft is only 500 gph, would that be enough on a T? I would think so, but I want to make sure I keep the 4-5 times though the sump.

 

[dannybradley]

Big D;61975 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Danny... I'd have to disagree. </span>

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">This is a valid point, however, now you are depending on one device for all of your flow. Let's say you head off to go to work one day and this one device decides to quit 20 minutes after you leave the house. 9 or 10 hours later, guess what... crash!</span>

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Have you ever tried to vaccum your sump, unless it's elevated a few feet, your gonna have to use a pump. It's much easier, for me at least, to vacuum it off my rocks and sand bed where I can see it about eye level.</span>

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Most of which blows right by the skimmer, over the baffles, back up the returns and back into the tank because it didn't even have enough time in the skimmer chamber to get skimmed.</span>

This is getting to be a good debate!

1. I said use 2 system pumps for redundancy. The chance of both of them failing is next to impossible.

2. With a proper prefilter you'll catch just about all the detritus. I'd go with changing out a filter sock every week. This will keep the detritus off your rocks, which will benefit the growth of coralline algae. One of the main points of having more flow is so that the detritus stays suspended so that it can be pulled out by the filter, rather than ending up in the substrate in the back of the tank where it cannot be siphoned without a major disruption to the tank.

3. The fact that you have a lot of water moving past the skimmer does not mean that you have a lot of water moving through the skimmer. That all depends on the type of skimmer and the feed pump used. Fast flow means there is a higher concentration of waste from which the skimmer can feed. Slow flow will create one area of cleaner water the skimmer will be pulling from. In addition, the clean water coming fom the skimmer is returned to the tank faster.

4. I've seen tanks with plenty of flow from powerheads crash when the main system was off. One of my clients turned off his system to feed his sea horses and left his office for the night without tunring it back on. There was still a 5X turnover in the tank from powerheads. He lost 90% of his livestock overnight.

 

[dannybradley]

Big D;62093 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">No debate... I'm done. I know what I've got in place works and I'm sure yours does also.. I just thought you'd enjoy my earlier reply after I took a look at your signature. </span>

So you're saying there's more than one way to do something in this hobby ? I hate and love my signature at the same time. I hate it because it's true and indicative of my excess pride, and I love it because it's true and indicative of my excess pride.

 

[blind1993]

for tank flow i would use modded mj.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

I gotta go with Big D on this one... in theory and in practice a slower rate through the sump and fuge allows for better cleaning from your workhorses. I think you are smart by following his advice and slowing the water through your sump to about 4-5X flow rate. I look at it this way, The water coming from the sump should be clean and clear, even if it comes to the point where your skimmer is catching some of the water it has already cleaned. By the time you pump this back to your tank it should be free of any crap that you do not want. It is kind of like doing a slow and steady water change all day long. You use the flow in the tank (Via PH or CL) to keep the crap off your rocks the best you can and suspended so it can make it to your over flows. "Wait!" you say, "Something must be wrong, I still get some crap on my rocks!" Awsome, use your "clean up crew" for what they are there to do, clean up!

 

[cameron]

Too slow through the fuge and you will likely start seeing nuissance algae which thrives in low flow environments. It is better to have a good high flow through the fuge area (relative to the size of the fuge) and slower turnover in the sump. This is often at odds with each other, but the original thought of max throughput running into the sump was flawed, but so is simply slowing it all down.

Also if you have a very large skimmer in relation to your tank, speeding up flow can be a very good thing as it can speed up organic removal. If your skimmer is cleaning the water 90% at 4-5x and 88% at 10x then the faster flow is better as you are getting organics to the skimmer quicker and removed faster which helps prevent nitrate breakdown from organics and ammonia as a by product.

Again this one size fits all recommendation for flow needs to stop. I am not against a "here is where I would start" conversation, but without knowing the specifics of the system it shouldn't be an absolute.