Quick advice needed... kalk and cloudy water

[cr500_af]

I only recently started adding kalk (pickling lime, to be exact) to my ATO water. Not a high concentration, just 2 Tsp for the whole 4 gal container to let me monitor the CA levels. Tonight I added more RO water to the container and of course it really stirred up the contents (has a maxijet running in it anyway, but I guess there was some settling on bottom).

Right as I did that, the ATO kicked on and ran for maybe 3-5 seconds.

Now (5 minutes later) I have MAJOR cloudy water. Cloudy enough that it worries me. I did a water change last night, and just made up more water tonight so it's a little too early to use.

I threw a HOB filter on with a carbon bag to try to remove some of whatever is, but is there anything else I should do? I can't believe that that little bit of ATO water could cloud things up that badly, but that's the only thing that happened while I was doing my maintenance.

Livestock is acting fine but my RBTA immediately shrunk and withdrew under the edge of his rock home.

Any reason to be concerned?

 

[skriz]

If it's cloudy, then you have just spiked your ph. Kalkwasser has a ph of about 12.4. If your ph has gone up considerably, do a water change asap.

 

[cr500_af]

Going now to test PH and get on that. There was no more than a cup of top off water added when the pump ran.

 

[skriz]

Also, unless your kalkwasser container is airtight, you're wasting your time with dosing it. Kalkwasser is reactive to CO2; the calcium will drop out of solution rapidly and significantly. The ph will also drop from 12 to about 10. This is why kalk reactors (Nilsens, etc.) are so effective.

 

[cr500_af]

PH shows 8.8, so you were right on it. It was 8.2 two nights ago. I'm getting some water change stuff ready, but it's cold. Is there a temporary "emergency" way to get the pH down until I can get the water warm enough to add? Or am I panicking more than I need to?

 

[cr500_af]

Is it possible that the "sediment" CA that obviously got stirred up is causing the spike, and will be removed my mechanical filtration? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but in all the reading I did about CA and Kalk I never ran across this scenario.

Luckily I have about 8 gallons that I pumped out of the tank Sat night that I can use as change water right now; it's only about 3 degrees colder than the tank, so I can heat it fast.

 

[cr500_af]

Need some advice on what to do here! The water in the sump is not cloudy, and that's where the ATO dumped. How can I get the pH down fast, safely??

 

[grouper therapy]

vineager will reduce your ph instantly but I do not know how much to dose. How big is you system (gallons)?

 

[grouper therapy]

Skriz;345394 wrote: Also, unless your kalkwasser container is airtight, you're wasting your time with dosing it. Kalkwasser is reactive to CO2; the calcium will drop out of solution rapidly and significantly. The ph will also drop from 12 to about 10. This is why kalk reactors (Nilsens, etc.) are so effective.

I disagree
A qoute from Randy Holme Farley
Limewater can lose potency by reacting with carbon dioxide in the air, forming insoluble calcium carbonate. Since calcium carbonate is not an effective supplement of calcium and alkalinity in reef aquaria, the limewater can become less useful through this process. The rate at which this happens in large containers, such as plastic trashcans with loose fitting lids, is much less than many aquarists expect. There is, in fact, little degradation under typical use conditions. <u>Consequently, the dosing of limewater from such large still reservoirs can be just as effective as dosing using any other scheme, and may have substantial advantages.</u> These advantages include simplicity of the system and the ability to use organic acids such as vinegar to boost the potency. <u>The use of a reactor to dose limewater has the advantage of requiring less space, but does not have the oft-stated advantage of eliminating degradation by atmospheric carbon dioxide that is reported to plague delivery from reservoirs.</u>

 

[lilrobb]

Skriz;345394 wrote: Also, unless your kalkwasser container is airtight, you're wasting your time with dosing it. Kalkwasser is reactive to CO2; the calcium will drop out of solution rapidly and significantly. The ph will also drop from 12 to about 10. This is why kalk reactors (Nilsens, etc.) are so effective.

I'm actually with Raj,
Barry mentioned a powerhead in the reservoir which keeps the solution stirred - so it will add more CO2 to it - and less effective than an airtight unit.

Robb

 

[grouper therapy]

Hope this helps
. Direct addition of vinegar. Commercial distilled white vinegar (typically 5% acetic acid or "5% acidity") can be used to instantly reduce aquarium pH. Do not use wine vinegars as they may contain undesirable organics in addition to the acetic acid.
I recommend adding 1 mL of distilled white vinegar per gallon of tank water to initially reduce pH by about 0.3 units. Once again, add it to a high flow area away from organisms (such as in a sump). The local pH where it first is added will be very low. Going about this procedure slowly is better than proceeding too fast. If you do not have a sump, add it especially slowly. The lower the aquarium's alkalinity, the larger will be the pH drop. Also, the higher the pH, the smaller will be the pH drop, because the buffering of seawater declines steadily as the pH drops from about 9 to 7.5. Remember, there may be an additional, later drop in pH as the vinegar is metabolized to carbon dioxide

 

[grouper therapy]

Also If you have an airstone put in the tank and letit run that will help to intro co2 and will lower the ph.

 

[mockery]

This might be a little late but if you have a CO2 tank pump some of that into the tank water that will lower pH fast

 

[cr500_af]

Thanks guys. Just got back from DrNecropolis' to confirm with his probe what my API kit was telling me. pH 8.92. I've started dripping vinegar slowly into the sump (up to the amount to get me back to 8.2; no extra vinegar to make it go too low).
Looks like it's gonna be a late night keeping an eye on it.

All livestock looks OK, but my RTBA has decided to move a little. He's gotten off his rock and moved down toward the bottom a little (but he had been moving around a little today before all this happened).

The reason there was a pump in the ATO reservior was because the kalk looked like it wasn't mixing fully, though I used less than the normal "dosage". The ATO only pumped MAYBE 1 1/2 to 2 CUPS of solution into the sump to start this. I'm quite puzzled, to say the least.

Now for what I don't want to think about... if livestock was hurt by this pH swing, when will that become apparent? I'm concerned about my fish, but mostly the RBTA.

 

[cr500_af]

LilRobb;345413 wrote: I'm actually with Raj,
Barry mentioned a powerhead in the reservoir which keeps the solution stirred - so it will add more CO2 to it - and less effective than an airtight unit.

Robb

grouper therapy;345418 wrote: Also If you have an airstone put in the tank and letit run that will help to intro co2 and will lower the ph.

Ok, call me stupid, but I thought powerheads and airstones introduced Oxygen, which raises the pH, while CO2 lowers it.

 

[tokejr]

Barry,

Please go slowly. Remember, you can't lower the pH too fast or you'll kill everything.

As for what went wrong, I can only say this is why I don't let my husband use kalk to affect calcium levels - everything I read says you can maintain calcium with kalk - not raise it.

Just be careful to go very slowly - by the time you get the pH down, you'll have adjusted 2 full points (at least 1 up and 1 down) and you have to do that carefully over time.

 

[cr500_af]

I'm going slowly... my intent was just to maintain levels, but you better believe I'm scared to use this stuff again.

I hope to have it to safe levels by morning; is that rushing it? I'd be crushed if I lost my livestock, to say the least.

How long would the damage take to show, if there is any?

 

[tokejr]

cr500_af;345481 wrote: I'm going slowly... my intent was just to maintain levels, but you better believe I'm scared to use this stuff again.

I hope to have it to safe levels by morning; is that rushing it? I'd be crushed if I lost my livestock, to say the least.

How long would the damage take to show, if there is any?

Yeah, I think that's rushing it.....I've always adhered to the rule "no more that 0.2 pH shift in 24 hours." I think the change should be more gradual.

pH swings are going to be displayed by fish in heavy breathing, surface breathing and/or slowed response and behavior. And it will be pretty rapid.

In my corals, I see them start to close up when something in the tank changes rapidly. However, if the water was very cloudy, some may close because of less light getting through the cloud to them.

Do you have a QT tank set up? If you see livestock reacting badly, you could move them to that tank while you adjust. I know you can't move the whole tank, but be prepared to move stressed livestock if you can.

 

[tgray3]

air stones introduce room air into the water. There is more C02 than 02 in your room air. Pumping more room air into the system will lower your PH. This is why a lot of people plumb an airline for their skimmer outside their house into open air. At least this is my understanding. Hope you get it worked out with no livestock issues.

 

[cr500_af]

I have a QT prepared, but it would be all new water (I usually use 1/2 tank water to fill it when I need to use it, but obviously I can't do that in this case). It seems like that would be no better than raising the pH in the display tank fast.

Even though the pH went up very fast, so far all the fish and the shrimp are acting perfectly fine... the RBTA is moving around, but other than that it is inflated and seems OK.

Some of my corals did close up, but they are opening back up slowly now.

Acting on the first response in the thread, I started doing water changes 3 gallons at a time, and now (3 hours later or so) it is around 8.5. That's .3-.4 change.
I'll slow the recovery down some now.

I know changes should be gradual, but I didn't know it should be THAT gradual. With the pH that high I was sort of panicky and thought that the longer they were in that water the worse the chances were.

I did a quick search of WWM when it happened, but everything I could find about lowering a too-high pH was freshwater related.

If something is dead when I get up tomorrow I'll be crushed.

Also, a public thank-you to Dr Necropolis for calling me and helping search for answers, not to mention testing a water sample with his probe at midnight. We wanted to see if I was really at 8.8 or if that was just where the API kit "topped out".