Quinine sulphate problems

[enderg60]

So I got some Quinine to treat for ich last week and dosed my QT system with it, its been 5 days and I just found my flame hawk on the bottom twitching, my purple tang dead, cleaner wrass and blue side wrasse all dead.

Im doing a water change now but the hell happened? I dosed it exactly as it says on the bottle.

 

[ralph atl]

I would pm Jeremy (or call) & Bill (ichthyoid), both recommended that treatment, and I "vouched" for them.....

sorry for your loss! That really sucks!

 

[rdnelson]

Man I hate hearing things like this. Wish I could be of help to you. :-(

 

[ichthyoid]

First, I'm sorry for the losses.

Did you do daily partial water changes?

 

[enderg60]

Nope, directions said to leave it in for 10 days.

 

[ichthyoid]

The directions on the National Fish Pharm web site, are what I have used in a QT/Hospital tank.

They suggest redosing daily with partial water changes.

I believe your fish may have experienced ammonia poisoning, without the water changes.

Were they breathing heavily?

 

[enderg60]

DOSAGE : 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Treat one time and leave in the water for 5-7 days.
For resistant Ich in a central system, treat once every three days with a 25% water change before each treatment. Do at least 3 treatments = 9 day period.


Right off their site, only thing different on the bottle is it says 100g per 800g for 10 days for large systems. Nothing about daily redosing or water changes.

No breathing heavy, just swimming funny and twitching from the one fish that was still alive, others were just dead on the bottom.

Rest of the fish in the system seem fine, aside from the last chromis which was swimming funny this morning so I moved him to a separate part of the QT system with no meds to see what happens.

 

[ichthyoid]

Then I would not know for sure. Were the fish already weak? Did you dose any other med's with it?

I know you are an advanced reef keeper, based on your posts. I'm at a loss here. Anything else I may be missing?

I can tell you I have used quinine products many times without incident, and would recommend it again. It's without question the best I have found for ectoparasites.

 

[enderg60]

No other meds and they showed no signs of anything and were all eating very well for 3 weeks prior to the medication.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I can reiterate some of what Bill said. Quinine Sulfate is a VERY potent medication. In fact, it can pretty easily destroy a nitrifying bacteria colony. So I would look at and think about ammonia. Also, I would not do the big "long term dose".

I use the source company for the supply of the med, but not necessarily for the administration. Their dosage seems to vary MASSIVELY between the web, and the product itself, and what the reps tell you.

This drug is so effective because it is so aggressive. And Aggressive treatments are often hard on life and the animals they are treating.

 

[enderg60]

I have an ammonia alert in there and its not showing any ammonia. No nitrite either, just nitrates which I kind of expect out of bio balls but water changes are fine for that.

So what dosage do you guys use then?

 

[ichthyoid]

I never attempt to maintain bacteria in a hospital tank, as it's really pointless. The med's often destroy bacteria anyway, and in the case of quinine it's certain to.

I also use a bare bottom as substrate is of no benefit and may adsorb some med's. Many variables here so I prefer to eliminate them, if possible.

Daily partial water changes keep ammonia down, water parameters more constant, and allow for constant dosing/stable medication levels.

I also like to use large pieces of PVC to provide inert structure for the fish to hide around, as well as low light. These help to reduce stress.

So,
- a plain glass box (tank, Rubbermaid containers, plastic sinks, etc. all work. Just don't ever use for food prep after, due to the med's used)
- fish to be treated
- some large PVC pieces for inert structure
- daily dosing, if possible (refer to directions)
- daily partial water changes to export nutrients (mostly ammonia)
- low light/low stress in a quiet area

 

[enderg60]

Right now the only thing in the QT is one piece of live rock and PVC fittings.

How big a water change are you talking about? my QT is two 75g tanks so doing daily 30-40% changes and redosing meds will start adding up fast.

 

[ichthyoid]

25% per day for 5 days

I use 10 or 20L for hospital tanks

 

[ddaddy2420]

Just curious how would ammonia build up in a QT tank that has had nothing but saltwater in it? It has a penguin hang on filter with new carbon filters but that's it?

 

[ichthyoid]

ddaddy2420;828392 wrote: Just curious how would ammonia build up in a QT tank that has had nothing but saltwater in it? It has a penguin hang on filter with new carbon filters but that's it?

Fish pee in it

 

[enderg60]

Im starting to get fed up with this.

After going by the directions I killed a few fish.

after doing 9 days of daily water changes and redosing of meds I let them sit for a week

I was just about to move the fish over and noticed the blue tang was covered in ich again.

Im getting seriously sick of this crap

 

[ichthyoid]

I would strongly encourage you to call these folks for a free consultation.

The number is at the top of their web page.

 

[nsconductor]

Are you 100 percent sure it's Ich? Marine Velvet?

 

[enderg60]

They dont answer the phone unless its for sales

and yes its ich