Second study links Carbon use and HLLE Disease

[acroholic]

Interesting article in Advanced Aquarist Reef Blog.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-disease">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-disease</a>

So what do we do, maybe use Purigen instead?

 

[smallblock]

thanks dave, the last study focused on lignite carbon. I guess this one is saying its all types of carbon right?

 

[crewdawg1981]

haha... um, I bought a five gallon bucket of the Bituminous stuff from BRS. Crap...

 

[izoid]

I am always skeptical of "scientific" studies that cannot even correctly identify their methods. How can they evenly distribute 35 fish among 3 tanks?

 

[enderg60]

they didnt mention if they rinsed it or not. The first experiment stated that the HLLE was caused in systems with un-rinsed GFO.

I run carbon, the small size cheap stuff from BRS. I rinse the hell out of it and I have never seen any HLLE in my tank on any of my 5 tangs.

 

[izoid]

Amici;690472 wrote: What I saw said 72 fish. Where did you see 35?

Edit: What I saw said 72 fish. Where did you see 35?

In the first study.

 

[smallblock]

I'm thinking of a diff study, Jeremy posted it a while back

 

[jhutto]

Others are recommending Renew. I started using it. I did not have a problem but was trying to keep one from happening.

 

[smallblock]

{I cant find it right now I'll keep trying.

 

[jennm]

Seachem makes Renew, which is a carbon substitute. I've carried it for years but it's only caught on with a handful of people.

We use carbon, and fish brought to me with HLLE have recovered in my care. Not questioning the science... just stating a fact. Many of them are permanently scarred but they heal up as well as they can.

Jenn

 

[acroholic]

Looks like there are three Seachem products that could be used. I am confused. Renew is basically a carbon replacement. Then there is Purigen and Hypersorb, which do the same thing as carbon per Seachem on their website. You can recharge and reuse Purigen and Hypersorb with a bleach soak, but not Renew.

I am wondering if Hypersorb is the same thing renamed as Purigen? Hypersorb does not seem to be on SeaChem's current product list.

Product info:

Renew: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html">http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html</a>

Purigen: [IMG]http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Renew.html">http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Renew.html</a>

Hypersorb: [IMG]http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/HyperSorb.html">http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/HyperSorb.html</a>

 

[jennm]

Hypersorb was the predecessor of Purigen. Purigen is more effective. Back when I went to Seachem certification training they told us that Hypersorb probably wouldn't "go away" since it was one of their earliest products to be successful, but I don't see it in my distributor's offerings anymore. They did do basically the same thing but Purigen was better.

Jenn

 

[acroholic]

JennM;690510 wrote: Hypersorb was the predecessor of Purigen. Purigen is more effective. Back when I went to Seachem certification training they told us that Hypersorb probably wouldn't "go away" since it was one of their earliest products to be successful, but I don't see it in my distributor's offerings anymore. They did do basically the same thing but Purigen was better.

Jenn

Thanks Jenn...I asked in SeaChem's Forum as well.

 

[mcphock]

I've always had good luck using just Poly Filter.

 

[acroholic]

Too bad you have to pay $25 for the complete article, but I guess they need to recoup their money. Conducting research isn't free!

 

[ichthyoid]

I'm tempted not to pick this guys 'research' apart without seeing it in it's entirety. However-

A quick review of the first 'study' indicates-

"The first system had a 500 gram mesh <u>bag of unwashed lignite carbon</u> added to the sump. The second system had 500 grams of pelletized carbon added. The third system was used as a control.
During their monitoring, the fish in the first system (unwashed lignin carbon) started exhibiting HLLE <u>after 20 days and after four months all fish were exibiting HLLE</u>. The fish in the second system (pelletized carbon) did not show outward signs of HLLE. However upon microscopic examination, legions were found. Fish in the third system (control) showed no signs of HLLE."

First, I never use carbon longer than 2 weeks. After that, it's just a bacterial colony anyway.

Second, after 4 months ALL of the fish developed HLLE? ....Please!

I'll tell you what. I have a new, different thesis. I propose that HLLE is caused by bacteria residing in neglected beds of GAC! How about that?

3 tanks, no replications, no randomly selected grades of similar lignite carbon AND different brands....etc....etc....etc...

How was the 'lignite' based carbon processed?
-was it direct activated or reagglomerated?
-what is the ash content (and properties of that ash)
-was it washed during processing, and how? Basic, acidic, neutral?
-etc,....

I say, go educate yourselves. Here is a good start-
http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/0802calgon.pdf">http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/0802calgon.pdf</a>

And just because someone says they are an R&D Scientist, that does NOT mean it is absolute fact. There may be something to particulate irritation causing HLLE. IMO, these studies do not adequately prove anything.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't science to me...JMHO

 

[ralph atl]

I use this:

ROX 0.8 High Performance Carbon (BRS)

I only need to use 1/2 as much.

 

[acroholic]

I guess it is each reefer's choice whether they buy into this or not.

 

[dawgface]

Thanks as always Acroholic! Always one for passing along much needed and interesting reads.

Like or not, believe it or discount it, it is very interesting and quite concerning imho.

 

[acroholic]

DawgFace;690681 wrote: Thanks as always Acroholic! Always one for passing along much needed and interesting reads.

Like or not, believe it or discount it, it is very interesting and quite concerning imho.

Thanks...I have a RS Purple Tang that has a touch of HLLE, and I have used carbon run through a BRS media reactor continuously since I set up this tank and its predecessor. I am buying some Purigen to use instead of carbon and will see if I have any changes in his condition.