Sprinkler Valves?

[mockery]

So I need an electronic solenoid valves for a tank project and wondering if a sprinkler valve would work in its place, cause a true PVC solenoid is like $200 and a sprinkler is around $20.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for the valve to be "aquarium safe" it:

<ul>
<li>Can\'t have any water come in contact to metal</li>
<li>Would type of plastic play a role?</li>
</ul>
Anything I could be missing? Here is a link to the valve I'm thinking about using.
http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Irrigation-Valves/Toro/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqppZ1i9/R-202176130/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053">http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Irrigation-Valves/Toro/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqppZ1i9/R-202176130/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053</a>

Also it says its 24v how would I power it since homes are 110v.

 

[ichthyoid]

Mockery;581672 wrote: So I need an electronic solenoid valves for a tank project and wondering if a sprinkler valve would work in its place, cause a true PVC solenoid is like $200 and a sprinkler is around $20.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for the valve to be "aquarium safe" it:

<ul>
<li>Can't have any water come in contact to metal</li>
<li>Would type of plastic play a role?</li>
</ul>Anything I could be missing? Here is a link to the valve I'm thinking about using.
http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Irrigation-Valves/Toro/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqppZ1i9/R-202176130/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053">http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Irrigation-Valves/Toro/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqppZ1i9/R-202176130/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053</a>

Also it says its 24v how would I power it since homes are 110v.[/QUOTE]

You power this type of solenoid, (typically) using a relay. This uses one voltage on the primary side and 24 volts DC on the other side. some metals are salt safe, such as 316 stainless steel, but be aware that not all 'stainless' steel is saltwater compatible (I know, it doesn't make sense, but trust me on this). Generally speaking, most 'plastics' which are technically carbon based polymers, should be compatible. There are some exceptions here as well. The cheap sprinkler valve might work for a few weeks, but a galvanic reaction is likely to occur and cause any cheap metal parts to corrode and eventually fail. This will cause a DC voltage to be present in the tank as well. If you want to discuss this, shoot me a PM and I will give you my number.

 

[grouper therapy]

Most of the sprinkler valves are linked to a sprinkler controller which has a built in transformer that takes the high voltage down to a low voltage. you can purchase these at radio shack. 120 to 24 v. But that being said I have not found any of these valves that will withstand saltwater if that is your application

 

[mockery]

ichthyoid;581683 wrote: You power this type of solenoid, (typically) using a relay. This uses one voltage on the primary side and 24 volts DC on the other side. some metals are salt safe, such as 316 stainless steel, but be aware that not all 'stainless' steel is saltwater compatible (I know, it doesn't make sense, but trust me on this). Generally speaking, most 'plastics' which are technically carbon based polymers, should be compatible. There are some exceptions here as well. The cheap sprinkler valve might work for a few weeks, but a galvanic reaction is likely to occur and cause any cheap metal parts to corrode and eventually fail. This will cause a DC voltage to be present in the tank as well. If you want to discuss this, shoot me a PM and I will give you my number.

PM sent!

 

[mockery]

grouper therapy;581688 wrote: Most of the sprinkler valves are linked to a sprinkler controller which has a built in transformer that takes the high voltage down to a low voltage. you can purchase these at radio shack. 120 to 24 v. But that being said I have not found any of these valves that will withstand saltwater if that is your application

Yeah I'm wanting to use it in saltwater. Got any thing that might work Dave?

ichthyoid;581683 wrote: You power this type of solenoid, (typically) using a relay. This uses one voltage on the primary side and 24 volts DC on the other side. some metals are salt safe, such as 316 stainless steel, but be aware that not all 'stainless' steel is saltwater compatible (I know, it doesn't make sense, but trust me on this). Generally speaking, most 'plastics' which are technically carbon based polymers, should be compatible. There are some exceptions here as well. The cheap sprinkler valve might work for a few weeks, but a galvanic reaction is likely to occur and cause any cheap metal parts to corrode and eventually fail. This will cause a DC voltage to be present in the tank as well. If you want to discuss this, shoot me a PM and I will give you my number.

Interesting I had read about the controller and relays but had no idea about the different versions of steel.

 

[mockery]

Also I guess I should have mentioned I need the valve to be for pipe between 3/4 and 1 1/2in ID.

If the price is right 1/2 could would but larger would be better.

 

[crewdawg1981]

Hey Colin... lemme know what you get to work for this. I want to be able to shut off the water supply to my sump room in the event something goes terribly wrong... was also looking at the solenoids for 1/2 cpvc... but like you said, they're between $100 and $200 each... and I need two.

 

[mockery]

Crewdawg1981;581701 wrote: Hey Colin... lemme know what you get to work for this. I want to be able to shut off the water supply to my sump room in the event something goes terribly wrong... was also looking at the solenoids for 1/2 cpvc... but like you said, they're between $100 and $200 each... and I need two.

I'll for sure let you know man. Are you looking to use them in a fresh or salt water application?

 

[rolo65]

Sprinkler valves themselves will not work in saltwater....metal contact with is usually copper or brass...(which has copper in it)....cpvc would work but yes it will be about the same price with that size valve....not many ways to get around it....the sprinkler valves will corrode and fail by sticking open or shut very quickly(within 3-6 weeks most likely)...just simply cannot handle salt

 

[rolo65]

To bad they don't make pure iron or stainless steel solenoids....

 

[ichthyoid]

They do make completely inert stainless steel valve bodies for use in the food, medical, chemical and pharmaceutical industries, for example. The only problem here is cost, which has been mentioned. I looked far and wide for inert valve body designs, and found many. None were what I would call 'cheap'. As mentioned, they are usually $100+.

 

[mockery]

Bummer, my project rides on a fairly larger valve that can be opened and closed quickly and electronically. Any one got another alternative, cause this project is on a tight budget! LOL

Well I've found some on ebay for a good price only problem is that they are all in Israel. So I don't think that is the best place to buy from.

PVC/CPVC doesn't absorb anything and then leech it back out that it is exposed to does it?

 

[lilrobb]

Normally open or normally closed?
I am in Germany right now - with a shipyard right next door - I bet my left ... that they have plenty of solenoids in stainless steel around here...

 

[mockery]

LilRobb;581729 wrote: Normally open or normally closed?
I am in Germany right now - with a shipyard right next door - I bet my left ... that they have plenty of solenoids in stainless steel around here...

Were you gonna say foot?? :lol2::lol2:

Anyways normally closed is what I need. But would it be metric or US standard plumbing?

 

[ichthyoid]

PVC/CPVC doesn't absorb anything and then leech it back out that it is exposed to does it?[/QUOTE]

Not in saltwater. Practically speaking.

Because of my experience in R&D, I can tell you that commercial polymers have minute amounts of impurity's and plasticizers that may leach out. The amounts are insignificant for our (ornamental fish) purpose though. Usually parts per billion or less. I only mention this because of the recent press on bisphenol-A, and baby bottles, etc. That is a plasticizer (keeps plastics flexible), with hormone like properties. It has been implicated in some human health issues. There are many others used in various applications. Most are not harmful. More info. than you may need, but you asked, so I felt inclined to disclose it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A</a>

If using a solenoid from another country, be prepared to provide a different voltage for the coil (often 250 VAC at 50 Hertz). Also, the solenoid is an electrical device that provides the energy for opening and closing the valve. Only the valve body itself is in contact with the water, and needs to be inert. Again, if you would like to discuss this PM me and I will provide my number.

 

[mockery]

Ok so the sprinkler option is out.

What about getting a used true union PVC solenoid valve?? I've found an ebay store based in tel aviv, Israel that has a pretty good price for these used. Would there be any concern using with contamination from what ever its previous uses were?

 

[enderg60]

where exactly did you find those? can you find out what they were previously used for?

 

[rbredding]

Sprinkler valves use a rubber diaphragm, all "normally closed" solenoids are magnets that hold a stainless steel plunger open (against the pressure of a stainless steel spring) when power to the magnet is supplied. when the power is cut, the valve is closed..

there's no copper involved in the valve or the solenoid (at least not on the wet side)

so it shouldn't be an issue..

but, if you're looking for something to remain primarily open and then shut off supply of water when the sensor is tripped, you'll want a solenoid/valve that remains open without power, not one that remains closed.

a sprinkler valve that has power on it constantly will damage the spring of the solenoid plunger and when power is cut, there is a greater chance that the plunger will not seat properly and therefore cause the valve to "stick open"


if a sprinkler valve will work for your application,

 

[ichthyoid]

Nice find. Looks like China strikes again. Sprinkler valves usually require a minimum pressure drop across them to operate reliably, like 10 psi. I would be curious to see if this one does, as there appears to be no mention in the 'manual' (or what there is of one).

FWIW- 10 psi is equal to a 22.5 foot high column of water, in case the above applies.

While still not exactly 'cheap', a lot less than what I found during my search a couple of years back. Thanks

 

[mockery]

EnderG60;582130 wrote: where exactly did you find those? can you find out what they were previously used for?

I've sent emails but it is from a surplus/consignment type store so there is a slim chance they know.

Here's the link so you know what I'm talking about.http://cgi.ebay.com/HAYWARD-PVC-CPVC-TRUE-UNION-SOLENOID-VALVE-/120638706409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c16a092e9">http://cgi.ebay.com/HAYWARD-PVC-CPVC-TRUE-UNION-SOLENOID-VALVE-/120638706409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c16a092e9</a>

Dang this this one is actually DC power so that might pose another problem.


This is one in Texas again its a surplus company so no telling if it is really new or not. And a little higher price then I was wanting to spend.
[IMG]http://cgi.ebay.com/5001-NEW-Hayward-SV1075STV-PVC-Solenoid-Valve-3-4-/170523019845?pt=Pneumatic_Hydraulic_Valves_Parts&hash=item27b3f6ca45">http://cgi.ebay.com/5001-NEW-Hayward-SV1075STV-PVC-Solenoid-Valve-3-4-/170523019845?pt=Pneumatic_Hydraulic_Valves_Parts&hash=item27b3f6ca45</a>