Sump Design Help and Questions

[jgoal55]

hey all,

I hired a local guy to build me a sump so I could maximize the under cabinet space in my new tank while maximizing water volume (we dont have basements).

Anyway, in designing the sump he messed up the original design and layout and while he did a kick butt job building the sump I am not sure Im happy with it.

The catch however is that his mistake may work our for the best because it makes for a larger return section and on my original design the return section may have been too small....I am using a Mag 12 return pump and the tank has a beananimal style overflow with 1.5" drains.

The total volume of the sump is about 90 Gallons. Operating Volume is about 67 gallons.

In the pictures below I detailed the differences between what was supposed to be the original plans and how he actually designed it.

Let me know what you guys think. If I need to make changes or revert to my original design, can they be made without starting over? More so because I want to get this tank started and i need the sump to do that. However, if it works as is I dont mind using the way it is.

One other issue to keep in mind is that I want to use a 36" Tek T5 fixture over my fuge. In the modified plan, part of the fixture would overhang the equipment/skimmer section. Would I have to worry about algae growing in the skimmer? In the original design the light only went over the return section which did not worry me at all.

And last question, how far apart should the bubble trap plates be? And how high up should the middle one be?
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[rbredding]

if you can be open to changing to a 24" fixture....

put the return at the right end of the sump..
which as best I can tell would make a refugium approximately 16"X24" and the return section 10"X24"...

the height of the bubble trap should be lower or equal to the bottom edge of the outflow weir on the skimmer section... traps are easiest to build if you can get your hand down between them, but 1.5"-2" separation between the pieces of acrylic is typical.. (the center should be the same height off the bottom as the distance between it and the outer panels)

you can run the 24" fixture front to back across the refugium



your current plan looks good though.. (you might need braces for the acrylic, given that you're running it such a long distance and the center panel is only supported at the ends)

 

[snowmansnow]

IMO... if you paid the guy to make a custom sump and he messed it up... that's his problem. Either keep the sump at a greatly reduced price, or have him make it again (this time paying attention to what his customer paid for).

If it were a hand out it would be different, but if you paid for it... well it should be right.

B

 

[jgoal55]

SnowManSnow;400471 wrote: IMO... if you paid the guy to make a custom sump and he messed it up... that's his problem. Either keep the sump at a greatly reduced price, or have him make it again (this time paying attention to what his customer paid for).

If it were a hand out it would be different, but if you paid for it... well it should be right.

B

yeah I agree....and so did he.....and he offered it to me at a discount.....I was just wanting to make sure that if I agreed, it would work well. Or if my original design was actually better.

 

[jgoal55]

Rbredding;400452 wrote: if you can be open to changing to a 24" fixture....

put the return at the right end of the sump..
which as best I can tell would make a refugium approximately 16"X24" and the return section 10"X24"...

not sure what youre getting at or how you got 16"?????? sorry.

but yes, I am open to changing to a 24" fixture if need be. I just already have a 36"

 

[rbredding]

Jgoal55;400484 wrote: not sure what youre getting at or how you got 16"?????? sorry.

but yes, I am open to changing to a 24" fixture if need be. I just already have a 36"

doesn't the largest section measure 24"X26" ? putting a divider that is 24" long at a point that would split the 26" section into 10"X24" for the return and 16"X24" for the refugium... (refugium in the middle, return section at the far right end)


looking at it again, it'd really be better if the bubble trap is between the skimmer section and the refugium.. really not much need for one between the refugium and the return..

 

[roundman]

I would think you would want a bubble trap before the return so you will keep bubbles from returning to the Display tank. I am in favor of a larger return area. My first sump had a smaller return area and I fought with micro bubbles all of the time. I made the baffles out of acrylic in a glass tank and they bowed and caused a small water flow into the return area.

 

[hackman72]

roundman;400544 wrote: I would think you would want a bubble trap before the return so you will keep bubbles from returning to the Display tank. I am in favor of a larger return area. My first sump had a smaller return area and I fought with micro bubbles all of the time. I made the baffles out of acrylic in a glass tank and they bowed and caused a small water flow into the return area.

The bubble trap doesn't need to be after the fuge because it should be large enough to slow the water down and let the bubbles gas out over the top of it for whatever made it through the trap. If micro bubbles are the problem after that, raise the pump about an 1 1/2 and put an elbow turned down and it will pull water from the bottom of the return.

 

[hackman72]

I'm not seeing where the bubble trap is being accounted for in the dimensions. How many inches between the baffles? If they're to close and the water moves to fast, micro bubbles will get caught in the flow and the bubble trap will be pointless.

 

[jgoal55]

Rbredding;400543 wrote: doesn't the largest section measure 24"X26" ? putting a divider that is 24" long at a point that would split the 26" section into 10"X24" for the return and 16"X24" for the refugium... (refugium in the middle, return section at the far right end)


looking at it again, it'd really be better if the bubble trap is between the skimmer section and the refugium.. really not much need for one between the refugium and the return..

The largest section in both designs is 26 x 14. Ive always seen the bubble trap right before the return only because I thought bubbles can develop in the fuge???

Hackman, youre right I did not acct for the bubble trap in those dimensions. As for how many inches between the baffles, thats what I wanted to know. How do you figure that out?

This sounded good to me from Rbredding:
"but 1.5"-2" separation between the pieces of acrylic is typical.. (the center should be the same height off the bottom as the distance between it and the outer panels)"

I do have an elbow on the return pump but are you suggesting that because of the size of the fuge a bubble trap is not necessary?

Essentially, what I need to know is if this thing will work the way it is. If it does I keep it and end up getting a pretty good working sump for cheaper (since he messed up). Or I have him rebuild it and pay the same price.

 

[hackman72]

Jgoal55;400568 wrote: The largest section in both designs is 26 x 14. Ive always seen the bubble trap right before the return only because I thought bubbles can develop in the fuge???

Hackman, youre right I did not acct for the bubble trap in those dimensions. As for how many inches between the baffles, thats what I wanted to know. How do you figure that out?

This sounded good to me from Rbredding:
"but 1.5"-2" separation between the pieces of acrylic is typical.. (the center should be the same height off the bottom as the distance between it and the outer panels)"

I do have an elbow on the return pump but are you suggesting that because of the size of the fuge a bubble trap is not necessary?

Essentially, what I need to know is if this thing will work the way it is. If it does I keep it and end up getting a pretty good working sump for cheaper (since he messed up). Or I have him rebuild it and pay the same price.

IMO, I'd take the cheaper one as it will do what you're basically wanting it to do. I'm not sure of your equipment intentions as that chamber is now much smaller but most pieces have HOT capabilities. That would be the deciding factor if you already have in-sump equipment.

I'm mobile right now and can't see the pic but I don't remember seeing the bubble trap installed. If not, I'd ask for the acrylic to do it but use it to make a brace for the legs on the 36" light over the 24" fuge until you can get a smaller light. With that said, bubble traps, to me, are dependent on the sump design. My sump doesn't have one and with the elbow I don't have micro bubbles and the fuge is right before the return. My fuge is only 12" by 12". If you do want a bubble trap, Ron is right on the dimensions for it.

Most of the decision should be based however on will the wrong design still fit the extra equipment and serve the general purpose for which you intended.

 

[jgoal55]

hmmm...good point i didnt think about skimmer footprints.

Currently I have an Oct Ex-200: Footprint: 11.5 inches X 13.5 inches. That doesn't seem to fit in either design. uhhh....shoot (for lack of a better word).

I wanted to upgrade eventually to the Super Reef Octopus 5000sss which has a 10x12.5 footprint and I think meets my needs (maybe eventually is now, uhhh double shoot!)

 

[hackman72]

Jgoal55;400594 wrote: hmmm...good point i didnt think about skimmer footprints.

Currently I have an Oct Ex-200: Footprint: 11.5 inches X 13.5 inches. That doesn't seem to fit in either design. uhhh....shoot (for lack of a better word).

I wanted to upgrade eventually to the Super Reef Octopus 5000sss which has a 10x12.5 footprint and I think meets my needs (maybe eventually is now, uhhh double shoot!)

can either be set up for HOT?

 

[hackman72]

FWIW, here's what I did with my 30" x12" sump. Intake goes into fuge then over spillway into useless 3" chamber where I put some LR rubble. It then goes to the return where the skimmer hangs on a baffle pulling out of the fuge and returning ( with the help of some 1" pvc) back to the intake. I know that's not optimum to return skimed water back towards the skimmer but I made do with the size restrictions. Sit down and give it a good once over and I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make it work.

 

[grouper therapy]

What is the purpose of the intake side?

 

[jgoal55]

Hackman72;400597 wrote: can either be set up for HOT?

not sure, but I am kind of against HOT or Ext skimmers....i see too many skimmer overflows.

Hackman72;400603 wrote: Sit down and give it a good once over and I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make it work.

uhh....youre giving me way too much credit..lol....ask lee - This is what I keep you guys around for.

I see what you are talking about with your design but the skimmer is a HOT right?

 

[jgoal55]

grouper therapy;400609 wrote: What is the purpose of the intake side?

where the water comes from the tank.......3 1.5in PVC's

 

[hackman72]

Jgoal55;400610 wrote: I see what you are talking about with your design but the skimmer is a HOT right?

I've got a turboflotor SL AND i love it. It works either in or out. I'm not a big fan of HOT either. I was just limited on space but I do like having options with it.

 

[grouper therapy]

Jgoal55;400612 wrote: where the water comes from the tank.......3 1.5in PVC's

Then the divider between the intake and the skimmer could be removed correct?

 

[jgoal55]

Hackman72;400614 wrote: I've got a turboflotor SL AND i love it. It works either in or out. I'm not a big fan of HOT either. I was just limited on space but I do like having options with it.

yeah they certainly save space when its tight.