Sump Design Help and Questions

[jgoal55]

grouper therapy;400616 wrote: Then the divider between the intake and the skimmer could be removed correct?

I suppose so. Unless i use filter socks which I have no intention of using. and even then, they can just hang.

that would definitely open up more space for a skimmer but still not enough for my current one.

What I was thinking was cutting out the the wall between the skimmer/equip section and bringing forward into the fuge. Would make the fuge section smaller but would give me more space to upgrade if necessary.

 

[jgoal55]

basically have him do this.....check out th white lines....hopefully that makes sense.
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

>

class="gc-images" title="iPhoto-6-2-1-1-1-1-1-1.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:300px" /></a> </fieldset>

 

[grouper therapy]

That will work my refugium is only 20 gallons on a 300 gallon system. Imo just big enough to grow some cheato.

 

[jgoal55]

as for the light, will it be an issue to hang my 36" fixture over the fuge/skimmer section? or is it better to get a smaller light that just hangs over the fug section alone?

 

[hackman72]

The light shouldn't be a problem for the skimmer. If you're worried about it.Hang it farther off the other end away from the skimmer. Mine gets plenty of light andI've never had algae issues with it.

If you modify the design and go back,is he going to charge extra now sinceyou changed it? Tell him that the only way it would work is to modify it per your drawing and that you'll take it at the discounted price since he messed up. We are talking Miami, right?

 

[grouper therapy]

I run a power compact twist over mine from HD.

 

[jgoal55]

Hackman72;400628 wrote: The light shouldn't be a problem for the skimmer. If you're worried about it.Hang it farther off the other end away from the skimmer. Mine gets plenty of light andI've never had algae issues with it.

If you modify the design and go back,is he going to charge extra now sinceyou changed it? Tell him that the only way it would work is to modify it per your drawing and that you'll take it at the discounted price since he messed up. We are talking Miami, right?

LOL....that was the plan.....and no he wont be charging me extra....if he does i get my deposit back and walk away.....but actually, he is a good guy....not too worried.

grouper therapy;400629 wrote: I run a power compact twist over mine from HD.

yeah but I like to sometimes put frags in my fuge before placing them in the main tank.....takes me a while to figure out where they go and I have a tek t5 that will keep them ok for a while.

 

[grouper therapy]

Jgoal55;400634 wrote: LOL....that was the plan.....and no he wont be charging me extra....if he does i get my deposit back and walk away.....but actually, he is a good guy....not too worried.



<u>yeah but I like to sometimes put frags in my fuge before placing them in the main tank.....takes me a while to figure out where they go and I have a tek t5 that will keep them ok for a while.

</u></em>
Great idea!

 

[jgoal55]

ha...thanks......Im wanting to make a little eggcrate shelf to hang in the fuge and let them develop in there.

 

[hackman72]

Jgoal55;400707 wrote: ha...thanks......Im wanting to make a little eggcrate shelf to hang in the fuge and let them develop in there.

I did the same thing. It works very well...steady flow and good lighting. Only problem was my fuge is to small and I had more frags than space for them.

 

[jgoal55]

yeah thats why we all upgrade at one time or another ...lol

So, is the final design layout to do the extended skimmer section like i posted above? do you agree that that would work well?

 

[jgoal55]

bump...for any final objections???? going to talk to the builder tomorrow.

 

[jgoal55]

Ok, so I went to talk to the builder today to suggest some alternate plans. I suggested the moving/cutting of the walls to rearrange the sump like I described above and he pretty much told me he'd rather build a new one b/c it would look so bad.

Basically the issue is that he says he cant cut right along the edge of the dividers because the router doesn't let him get too close to where the divider meets the outer wall of the tank so there would be like 1.5 - 2in "flaps" just sitting there. I agree. I think it would look messy.

Anyway, as it turns out, I have to decide by tuesday whether I want to keep this as is (for less money) or whether I want him to start over and build it like I specified the first time.

Pros of keeping as is:
Cheaper
Get my tank up and running faster
Better Return section Volume

Cons of keeping as is:
Very Limited w/ (in sump) Skimmer choices
(this only worries me because if I ever want to upgrade skimmers I dont have a lot of options. That said, my current skimmer fits [barely, but it fits] and the one I was considering upgrading too also fits. But, if I end up not happy with it, then what).

Anyway, I think what it comes down to is this: My new tank is 160 gallons plus a 60 gallon operating level sump so were looking at a 220g system....

How many good in-sump skimmers (within a reasonable budget around $600 or less) can I fit in 13.25W x 13L? If the answer is quite a few, then I may just keep it knowing that I have options. If the answer is 3 or less, I think Ill have him rebuild.

Now to throw a small wrench in the whole plan. Even though I'm pretty against the idea, I know there are some great external skimmers. If I were to consider them (even though they take away from my under cabinet space), are my options pretty much endless at that point?

Also, attached is a picture with the exact measurements (inner dimensions and still not accounting for the bubble trap).
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

>

class="gc-images" title="iPhoto-6-2-1-1-1-1-2-1.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:300px" /></a> </fieldset>

 

[skriz]

Jorge,

The more powerful skimmers are all external. It's time for you to grow up and play with the big kids

Your builder is right; trying to modify the sump will be a disaster. It'll look like that photo of Brandon in a bunny suit..only worse (if that's possible).

Look, you're spending good money on your entire system and it is something that you'll have to live with for quite some time. Don't let a little discount alter your plans. In the grand scheme of things, a few dollars now is nothing compared to the headache and aggravation with making do. If it were me, go with the plan you think will work the best, regardless of cost.

 

[jgoal55]

well I definitely agree with you but I guess what Im getting at is that if I do end up switching to external skimmers then the current design has no problems at all right? therefore, i get the best of both worlds and I get my tank up and running quicker.

that said, my concern is more of going without an external skimmer. again, im extremely limited. and yes the it may be time to play with the big boys but I have seen soooo many of you big boys flood your tank areas with ext skimmers it scares me. And with my history of floods it's all too real a possibility (ill forget to turn it off when feeding something, Ill adjust it incorrectly, ill add a supplement, and boom - skimmer overflow)

So lets just put it this way. I am definitely considering the external option. But I do prefer the internal. I think with this size tank an internal can still work well. Again, the issue is can I find a good one to fit. If not, new sump it is. (and more than a money thing, its a time thing. Im dying to get water in this thing already)

Now about brandon, pictures of him without any types of animal suits are ugly. I cant imagine a bunny suit and I definitely cant imagine worse than that!!! I will say this, does brandon even need to dress up for halloween?

 

[hackman72]

Don't forget that some skimmers come with a drain plug that you attach a line and run it over to something like a 2-liter bottle so the collection cup doesn't ever really fill up. I've never done it but I imagine you could DIY something like that also. Nice way to avoid a flood if that's of major concern to you.

 

[skriz]

Jgoal55;401609 wrote: well I definitely agree with you but I guess what Im getting at is that if I do end up switching to external skimmers then the current design has no problems at all right? therefore, i get the best of both worlds and I get my tank up and running quicker.

that said, my concern is more of going without an external skimmer. again, im extremely limited. and yes the it may be time to play with the big boys but I have seen soooo many of you big boys flood your tank areas with ext skimmers it scares me. And with my history of floods it's all too real a possibility (ill forget to turn it off when feeding something, Ill adjust it incorrectly, ill add a supplement, and boom - skimmer overflow)

So lets just put it this way. I am definitely considering the external option. But I do prefer the internal. I think with this size tank an internal can still work well. Again, the issue is can I find a good one to fit. If not, new sump it is. (and more than a money thing, its a time thing. Im dying to get water in this thing already)

Now about brandon, pictures of him without any types of animal suits are ugly. I cant imagine a bunny suit and I definitely cant imagine worse than that!!! I will say this, does brandon even need to dress up for halloween?

As with anything, if set up correctly, it's almost impossible to have a flood with an external skimmer. Simple items can ensure that you won't have a problem. A waste collector will shut down the skimmer should it overflow: easy!

You are</em> limited with internal options, not so much with external options. With the money you're saving with this sump, you could invest in a better skimmer..best of both worlds!

I'm pretty sure Brandon has to dress down for halloween; he's just too scary otherwise.

 

[jgoal55]

lol...good point on brandon...

Waste collector? shut off skimmer? sounds like a must have! Im liking the idea. - not limited with external, I get my sump faster, its cheaper, and its a better skimmer. Lets hear the recommendations Raj.....

Hackman....ive seen those drains too but usually when Ive had my skimmer overflow its does it so much it would fill up most containers you attach....LOL

 

[lilrobb]

But a full waste container would shut the skimmer down and thus stop the overflowing...

 

[rbredding]

Jgoal55;400568 wrote: The largest section in both designs is 26 x 14.

i meant the current (no divider) section, not the two options that you've shown pictures of..

Jgoal55;400568 wrote: Ive always seen the bubble trap right before the return only because I thought bubbles can develop in the fuge???

the bubble trap is only needed where water flow is so fast that the micro and larger bubbles don't have a chance to rise to the surface, the bubble trap holds them in the first section so that "bubble-less" water will continue..
with a Refugium, the flow should be slower, so that the bubbles have the chance they need to rise.

Jgoal55;400568 wrote: Hackman, youre right I did not acct for the bubble trap in those dimensions. As for how many inches between the baffles, thats what I wanted to know. How do you figure that out?

This sounded good to me from Rbredding:

"but 1.5"-2" separation between the pieces of acrylic is typical.. (the center should be the same height off the bottom as the distance between it and the outer panels)"

Essentially, what I need to know is if this thing will work the way it is. If it does I keep it and end up getting a pretty good working sump for cheaper (since he messed up). Or I have him rebuild it and pay the same price.

I think that you can DEFINITELY work with the sections that he's put in place, but you'll need to add a bubble trap and another divider to really make it work for you...

I would add the bubble trap turned 90* from how you've shown it in your white line drawings.. run the bubble trap from the bottom left corner to the top right corner of the drawing... (see the image below)

with this design, you can actually raise the level of the water in the refugium to whatever height you want to use, (the water flowing into the bubble trap will enter at the cutout in that section, but will leave the bubble trap at the elevation of the last baffle - that touches the divider)

this will raise the water level in the intake section AND the skimmer section, but that shouldn't be a bad thing.. fill the intake section with "clean" live rock and your skimmer will fit into the skimmer section (you can pipe the output of your skimmer to put the skimmed water directly into the refugium or into the return section (nothing says that your skimmer has to empty into the same section it pulls from... it should be "bubble-less" water, so there's really no issue with piping it directly into the return section)
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

>

class="gc-images" title="iPhoto-6-2-1-1-1-1-1.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:300px" /></a> </fieldset>