Tank poisoned?

[outdrsyguy1]

So I’ve been dealing with a tank crash for probably 3 months now. It’s should have turned the corner but stuff just keeps randomly dying in patches here and there. Can a failed reeflo pump seal poison a tank?
I think my main crash started from lack of flow and a few dead fish. I only ever saw one skeleton but I think I lost 5+ smaller sized fish. I never noticed as there were 50+ in the tank and I had some CRAZY AWFUL irl stuff that lasted 5+ months. I also found a reactor that had come slightly unattached and probably turned septic until the pump stopped for any reason and released a poison cloud.
All that is rectified and parameters have been solid for a couple months and water changes and a couple tank cleanings have happened.
But I still get random patches of coral that die. Not the whole coral but spots followed by slow recession. System has 1,000 gallons of water and is pretty stable.
It looks like I painted a patch on a coral with kalk paste to kill it or something. Just last night I had two more patches of coral die.
There are no pests causing it, I’ve had enough of them over the years to spot it.
Here’s last nights damage. Hard to see but everything that’s white was colorful yesterday.
Also, many of my corals were coloring up nicely during the last month or so.

Look at the stripe between two green coral areas. That was green and fine yesterday.
Even my digitata is struggling which never happened before.
Here’s a couple bare patches on my blue Millie. Rest of the colony looks happy and healthy.

Okay, now for the nasty part. Here’s my disassembled reeflo pump that I just noticed leaking yesterday.

Still not convinced it’s the pump. I did check all my heaters and also removed a tunze pump that was seized up.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Also nothing that I know of has changed in our house that wasn’t going on for the past 3 years. I’ve tried putting in carbon and it doesn’t seem to stop anything. Something like this happened to me once in a 110 gallon where I was stupid and would start/stop my chiller pump only when I needed to run it. The water would go septic inside and randomly kill stuff which took forever to diagnose. However, I can’t really find any dead spots in this tank that haven’t been there for 3+ years
More pics of the carnage.

This coral was beautiful purple that colored up well and then 1 day dead tips.
I’ve testsed alk with 2 different kits and it’s right on 8.4 dkh.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Also, fish are doing well now. No losses in a couple months.

Couple of top down shots from this summer. Might be out of order but the one with the pretty corals are before the crash. Most of those are in the landfill currently.

 

[lmm1967]

have you tried UV sized for bacteria level killing?

 

[sharis100]

Have you sent a water test out to see if you have contamination?

 

[Adam]

I don't know enough about how long hydrogen sulfide stays in the system or how I breaks down. It is toxic though.

I'd send a couple ICP tests off. https://www.icp-analysis.com/ is the quickest and can get you some data in a week or less. ATI is the most comprehensive but takes 10-16 days to get the results.

Most metals are pretty toxic at higher levels too. Chromium, vanadium, manganese... the thing you have going for you is the volume for dilution.
In the mean time all you can do is run a full battery of the tests you have on hand. How many water changes have you done and how much volume per change? Oh, and it may sound stupid but, when was the last time you changed out the RODI filters?

 

[Adam]

@outdrsyguy1 I just saw that Triton has opened a US based testing facility. They're saying results in as little as 24hrs.
Just got this email today:

TRITON Announcement January 2020 View this email in your browser

America - The wait is over! TRITON Applied Reef Bioscience US Lab officially opens with free return shipping on ICP-OES water analysis.

As of January 20th, US consumers can have their water tested and results uploaded within as little as 48HRS! The grand opening of our long awaited TRITON Lab at Unique Corals in Los Angeles has finally arrived. Customers can enjoy water analysis results and TRITON’s unique AI recommendations within 48 hours of samples being received at our Los Angeles lab. Along with rapid results and recommendations, all samples will now ship FREE back to the TRITON US Lab via USPS. A first class return postage label is included in every testing kit. Simply peel off the label, affix it onto the box, drop it off in any mailbox or give it to your mailman. Depending on your geographical location, the test will arrive at the lab within 1-3 working days. The TRITON ICP-OES water analysis is not only about testing 36 aquarium parameters, more importantly, it is about providing customers with a deeper understanding of how these parameters affect their reef aquariums. With TRITON US Lab testing customers will receive analysis derived from the most qualified aquarium experts, with highest quality of service and advice. Triton testing is based on information derived from the world’s biggest and fastest growing database of aquarium lab analysis. TRITON’s unique recommendation system provides the user with easy-to-follow solutions based on test results, prioritized based on level of importance. Drop down tabs let you choose between habitats and problems commonly encountered to ensure that suggestions and solutions are far more customized for each client. Armed with knowledge, users can take informed and immediate action.

 

[ZapataInc]

@outdrsyguy1 I just saw that Triton has opened a US based testing facility. They're saying results in as little as 24hrs.
Just got this email today:

​ ​ TRITON Announcement January 2020 View this email in your browser

​ ​ ​ America - The wait is over! TRITON Applied Reef Bioscience US Lab officially opens with free return shipping on ICP-OES water analysis.

​ ​ ​ ​ As of January 20th, US consumers can have their water tested and results uploaded within as little as 48HRS! ​ The grand opening of our long awaited TRITON Lab at Unique Corals in Los Angeles has finally arrived. Customers can enjoy water analysis results and TRITON’s unique AI recommendations within 48 hours of samples being received at our Los Angeles lab. Along with rapid results and recommendations, all samples will now ship FREE back to the TRITON US Lab via USPS. A first class return postage label is included in every testing kit. Simply peel off the label, affix it onto the box, drop it off in any mailbox or give it to your mailman. Depending on your geographical location, the test will arrive at the lab within 1-3 working days. The TRITON ICP-OES water analysis is not only about testing 36 aquarium parameters, more importantly, it is about providing customers with a deeper understanding of how these parameters affect their reef aquariums. With TRITON US Lab testing customers will receive analysis derived from the most qualified aquarium experts, with highest quality of service and advice. Triton testing is based on information derived from the world’s biggest and fastest growing database of aquarium lab analysis. TRITON’s unique recommendation system provides the user with easy-to-follow solutions based on test results, prioritized based on level of importance. Drop down tabs let you choose between habitats and problems commonly encountered to ensure that suggestions and solutions are far more customized for each client. Armed with knowledge, users can take informed and immediate action.

NICE! Ive been thinking about doing this.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Thanks for the info guys. I've been trying to find a local store with a triton test kit but haven't had any luck. Anyone know of one in the atlanta area that has them?
My thoughts are that this is either a poison or maybe some chemical warfare possibly? I've tried a piece of poly filter on the return and it didn't seem to make a difference. Also tried carbon a couple times with no luck.
My bet is the triton test will come up empty but maybe i'll get lucky and it will actually point to something. If it was bacterial I would think the vibrant i've been adding the last 4 weeks would reduce it. Vibrant does seem to be getting the cyano in check that i've had for 3+ years. Used chemiclean 3 times on the tank during year 2 or so but it would just come back 8 weeks later so I gave up fighting it. About to do my 5th treatment and bubble algae is holding strong still but from what I've seen it holds on till week 7+.
A couple days ago i had a tip on a pink birds nest coral just die. It was strange for sure. Rest of the colony is fine, along with a separate pink birds nest colony right next to it. I spent 5 hours last weekend cleaning out dead corals and pulling bubble algae and ended up with a 5 gallon bucket full of dead coral. I'm gonna guess around 25 pounds or so. tank looks like a starter tank again with the exception of a couple coral survivors.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

okay, so it turns out they sell them on amazon also lol. It will be here saturday!

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Here's the analysis. Some trace elements a little low and calcium a little high but nothing that should be killing corals in my mind. Let me know if your experience is different. We do have some a decent stash of paint materials in the basement with the tank and we are going to go through them all to see if any are leaking and just clean out the area to throw out old stuff.
So, from what i can tell, no real reason why everything died yet but possibly pointing to a chemical issue in the basement.
Here's the results of the triton

Triton Applied Reef Bioscience are the world leaders in professional sea water analysis.

Empowering aquarists around the world since 2008. Click to view shared sea water analysis.

www.triton-lab.de

 

[bigd]

Looks a lot like what I went through with my 180 years ago. Took me forever to figure it out. Ended up being a bad Won Bro’s titanium heater leaking current in to the tank. Found it by checking the sump water with a multimeter.


D

 

[outdrsyguy1]

thanks for the suggestions. i visually checked my heaters and cleaned them but i'll try turning them on tomorrow and pulling out my multimeter.

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

Looks a lot like what I went through with my 180 years ago. Took me forever to figure it out. Ended up being a bad Won Bro’s titanium heater leaking current in to the tank. Found it by checking the sump water with a multimeter.

Thats brilliant

 

[outdrsyguy1]

@bigd well i thought you were on to something but i checked this morning and there's no AC or DC stray voltage at all. Tried turning my heaters on and off and checking in the back of house tanks and nada. Back to the drawing board i guess.

 

[Adam]

@bigd well i thought you were on to something but i checked this morning and there's no AC or DC stray voltage at all. Tried turning my heaters on and off and checking in the back of house tanks and nada. Back to the drawing board i guess.

What's your Alk Rusty? With the low Mag I could see the Alk precipitating. Could be why the Cal is elevated.

The death of the coral could have started with the hydrogen sulfide and then a bacterial issue took hold. There's some good info on it from Triton recently. Got another email from them last week.

RTN-X and STN-X View this email in your browser

STN-X and RTN-X Slow Tissue Necrosis (STN) and Rapid Tissue Necrosis (RTN) are two common problems that have become increasingly prevalent in the modern reef aquarium with the growing popularity of small polyp stony coral (SPS) dominated systems. Although this issue can result from parasitic infestation, primary or secondary bacterial infection is another cause of tissue necrosis in our corals. RTN-X and STN-X were derived through TRITON’s unique scientific work in N-DOC lab testing establishing the TRITON N:C Ratio. They can be used to aid corals against bacterial types of slow and rapid tissue necrosis. These products work to create an environment within the aquarium that shock the bacteria attacking the affected coral while, at the same time, providing specific elements that help to fortify the coral that is under attack. The shocking affect of these products is achieved by an intensive “in tank” bath which means that the infected coral does not need to be removed from the aquarium. A solution is prepared using the aquarium water in conjunction with either RTN-X or STN-X and after 20 minutes is ready for application. If nutrient amounts are known, ideally through N-DOC testing, a very effective ratio adjustment can be administered prior to the intensive bath. Use our online calculator for optimal treatment information. These products cannot prevent further deterioration of affected corals if the underlying stressors are not identified and addressed but will acutely treat the bacteria causing tissue necrosis. Ideally used in conjunction with TRITON N-DOC lab tests to accurately dial in the dose rate, there is also a generic dose rate if exact water parameters are not available. RTN-X and STN-X do not contain any from of antibiotic or aggressive heavy metals and are safe to use with any reef system. Both products were designed in Australia and are produced in Germany.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

interesting product, thanks for the info. My alk's been right at 8.5 to 9.0 pretty much throughout the whole disaster which is a first for me. Usually i screw up and let it drop to 7 or up to 12 when bad things happen. I even just got a new hanna alk checker in and it was the same reading as my old one which was starting to go on the fritz and think the battery was bad all the time.
Calc is definitely elevated because my mag is low (i don't think i tested for calc in a month, so my fault on that one. i pretty much only do alk 75% of the time these days). When my mag gets low it's hard to keep alk/calc in tune it seems. Maybe it is a bacterial issue. It's odd that most of the damage is in the DT with very little in the frag tanks which are connected to the DT loop. I have had some damage in the frag tanks but it's been much less widespread than the DT damage. There was pretty much no damage for most of the crash except a few weeks ago when a large red dragon acro colony rtn'd overnight along with a couple other corals in the path of waterflow from the return water. it feels like hydrogen sulfide being wafted into things but i'll be dam*#ed if i can find anywhere in my tanks with stagnant water. There's a couple of low flow areas, but nothing that should go septic and that hasn't also been there for 2+ years without issue.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

One more thing to complicate the situation. I just found this tonight. Apparently the memory batteries in 3 of my Ocean Revive lights died. There are 6 lights on the front of the tank and lights 3, 5, and 6 were all set at 5% power when they used to be around 75-100%. I was moving a coral tonight and got my par meter out on a whim and thought it was broken. I was getting 75-100 par on a lot of areas on the right side of the tank. after much thought i pulled up the settings in the lights and that's when i found the 3 were putting out little to no light. So some areas were definitely light starved. I don't know when the last power outage was at my house but I'm guessing around 1-2 months ago and likely the memory of the power level was lost at that time. It's very hard to see par so i didn't really notice a change visually. I'd guess about 50% of the corals that died were under these lights with the other half that died still under strong lighting.

 

[Adam]

It just shows how complex reef keeping can be. Most of the time I've found that there's several things that happen to cause a problem. It's just that last issue that is the straw that broke the camels back.

You've done everything you can now and the water looks to be in fairly good shape. With the lights being corrected and getting the Mag back up it will be interesting to see how things progress from here.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Okay, so thanks again to all who participated in the conversation, just wanted to follow it up with what I believe happened.
Short and sweet, then more detail for those of you with short attention spans
Not enough water changes, trace elements got too low. Reactor got disconnected causing random bouts of septic water being flushed into the system, 4 LED lights went from 90%+ to 5% for month+ without noticing and the whole thing was kicked off by lack of maintenance reducing water flow and lack of feeding causing me to lose a few fish (auto feeder ran out, and life got insane... like once in 30 years kinda thing insane).

Longer version:
Corals were likely low in health from lack of strontium, potassium, and possibly iodine but not nearly as likely. I don't think magnesium plays a big part but it was also low and i could be wrong about that as i'm not a chemist. Had some things happen to my wife which put life in the $hitt#r for 4 months. My eductors and power heads got clogged and had a LOT less flow. I also had a HUGE forest of digi and corals all over the tank and on the bottom. The spyglass reactor I got from that reef pirate company came loose and sat there full of stagnant water until a power outage would happen and then it would drain into the sump. 4-5 fish died (sorry, hard to notice when there's 50 of them in there hiding and such) likely from lack of food though i never noticed any other than 1 which was gaunt. That one was a bartlets anthias that was being forced into a cave by another male and there's absolutely no way i could catch either of them.
Probably started with the reactor sumping some septic water in which killed a few corals and fish dying around the same time. Actually, the power outage would have happened then because the battery backup (watch battery things) in my lights must have gone dead because for some reason the clocks on a few of them weren't right. I fixed the clock but didn't realize the power had reset to 5%. Then with low coral health from lack of trace elements, low flow, low light on 15" round colonies, and the occaisional hit of septic water once in a blue moon, the dominoes started falling.
I thought I had it under control but just couldn't get things to recover.
After my triton test results came back with basically just low magnesium and trace elements and no smoking gun, I decided to buy about $300 in trace elements and start dosing (if i used triton and bought all the recommended ones it would have been around $1000-$1200). I went with the strontium, iodine, magnesium, potassium, and a little bit of manganese. My belief is that strontium and potassium were probably the culprits. I probably hadn't changed more than 10% of my water total in 6 months+, if that honestly. Corals were just too exhausted to handle the trauma.

Once I started dosing the trace stuff, which took about 10 days to get it all in, things started looking better. I'd say within 1 week of completion or less things had recovered and started actually growing new branches/tips which I hadn't seen in a long time. In that time, i don't think i even did any water changes. Also, i still had a couple acro's that were slowly dying back and those stopped dying and started to look better. So with that said, i firmly believe that some trace elements are vitally important and if you don't get them in there one way or another, you'll eventually end up with exhausted corals at the end of a marathon waiting for that one pot hole to end their careers.

Hope that helps a few of you out there learn something to avoid it for yourselves!
thanks again,
Happy reefing