This is cruel!

A glorious death IMO, But I do feel ya on the cruelty deal but, Amici is right that thing had a hankerin for a spankerin
 
so apparently feeding our animals is cruelty? Because that's all that was going on.. no ridiculous commentary, no torture, no prolonging of the fight... he dropped the hermit in and the mantis shrimp killed and ate it. Seems to me that the only issue you have is that this person filmed it. It's no different than a documentary on tv where a lion brings down a gazelle. You could argue that the video was taken to enlighten people about the world of the mantis shrimp and how it feeds...
 
Somebody needs to come video my latest mantis and post it for me. Still small (maybe 2") but the worst attitude of any mantis I've kept. A few of you have seen her in action but she will actually lunge out of the water when I try to feed to get a shot at my hand. While my favorite marine critter....the mantis shrimp is where the phrase "little-man syndrome" was coined.

And a little more on topic, from what I've read to keep a mantis alive and healthy for a long time they actually need live shelled prey (or the smashers do anyways....but I assume the spearers need live food too) to promote activity and normal molting. Apparently molting is somewhat tied to a need for new/bigger clubs:D
 
I used to keep a mantis in my old store in Decatur. I would feed it pest animals that came in on corals. i.e sundial snails, gorilla crabs, etc.

The other option was to flush them. Isn't that just as cruel? Or should I let them eat my corals and infect other customer's tanks?

I did try to feed it a frozen snail that was in a pack of silversides once. It didn't go so well. :)

It is just a thought on the posed moral question. Why is it ok to kill gorilla crabs that eat your coral but, not hermit crabs?

Tim
 
The questions isnt the morality of what occurs. Yes, mantis' do eat crustaceans. Its that the filmer does so for amusement. The "joy" is watching one animal kill another is rather disturbing. The whole "contender" and "champion" thing exemplifies it. That mindset is foul.

This whole topic reminded me of this idiot.
watch
 
jmaneyapanda;637747 wrote: The questions isnt the morality of what occurs. Yes, mantis' do eat crustaceans. Its that the filmer does so for amusement. The "joy" is watching one animal kill another is rather disturbing. The whole "contender" and "champion" thing exemplifies it. That mindset is foul.

This whole topic reminded me of this idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV9z5e1r2KM&feature=player_embedded#at=12">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV9z5e1r2KM&feature=player_embedded#at=12</a>[/QUOTE]

I suppose I should have watched the video. :) I was just asking about the arguments below the opening post as to the fairness of feeding animals to other animals and not in direct relation to the video.
Click to expand...
 
ok...

so now that it's out there...

I dont think i'd believe anyone in this hobby that tells me he/she doesn't find it fascinating when fish/inverts/etc compete for food at feeding time...

How many times have you seen a post with this phrase "feeding frenzy :D "

How can someone separate the action</em> of putting a hermit crab in with a mantis shrimp from the excitement of watching the battle that is caused</em> by someone putting a hermit crab in with a mantis shrimp...

that's like a husband buying a pistol for his wife for self defense, then condemning her when she uses it to save her life..
 
Rbredding;637773 wrote: ok...

so now that it's out there...

I dont think i'd believe anyone in this hobby that tells me he/she doesn't find it fascinating when fish/inverts/etc compete for food at feeding time...

How many times have you seen a post with this phrase "feeding frenzy :D "

How can someone separate the action</em> of putting a hermit crab in with a mantis shrimp from the excitement of watching the battle that is caused</em> by someone putting a hermit crab in with a mantis shrimp...

that's like a husband buying a pistol for his wife for self defense, then condemning her when she uses it to save her life..
Click to expand...


Im not sure I understand what your saying. I can absolutely differentiate the necessity of food chain from enjoying watching animals kill each other. Thats why dog fighting and cock fighting are illegal and frowned upon. This guy has every right to want a mantis, to feed it appropriately, and to even enjoy its biology. But fabricating and publishing a video that does nothing but glamorize doing it for fun. there is a BIG difference in posting something like that for educations sake, versus posting it for entertainmnets sake. Would that video have been ok if it was feeding puppies to a lion?
 
Comparing puppies to a lion to this video is like apples and oranges. Comparing crocodiles to a lion and this video would be closer.

when the discovery channel shows lions, tigers and gazelles (oh my) at the watering hole and a croc gets them is it for entertainment, for education or for entertainment disguised as education?

Some people like those shows some don't and before you say it, yes I realize nature put those creatures in that spot at the watering hole not man, well theoretically man had nothing to do with it.

with that said I have no problem with this video but like Jeremy said would have a problem with dog fights or "feeding puppies to lions" hypocrisy? Probably, but we all have our limits and things we like and don't like and we all have our hypocrisies...

Interesting thread.
 
slayers911;637784 wrote: Comparing puppies to a lion to this video is like apples and oranges. Comparing crocodiles to a lion and this video would be closer.

when the discovery channel shows lions, tigers and gazelles (oh my) at the watering hole and a croc gets them is it for entertainment, for education or for entertainment disguised as education?

Some people like those shows some don't and before you say it, yes I realize nature put those creatures in that spot at the watering hole not man, well theoretically man had nothing to do with it.

with that said I have no problem with this video but like Jeremy said would have a problem with dog fights or "feeding puppies to lions" hypocrisy? Probably, but we all have our limits and things we like and don't like and we all have our hypocrisies...

Interesting thread.
Click to expand...

The crocodiles at the watering hole is not an artificial interaction forced in a captive setting by man. If it were, it were be condemned. Imagine if Zoo Atlanta stated it would start charging to allow you to see them put a zebra in the lion cage. There would be a upcry and outrage. What happens in nature is nature. This was not. And it wasnt portrayed as that.

Let me ask this, why is the puppy comparison way off? Lions would eat puppies. In fact, they would eat Afrcian wild dogs in the wild, if and when the opportunity comes about. So how is hat different at all? because we "like" puppies more than snails?

This video was anthropomorphised and promoted as a fun and jovial poke at sport wrestling or boxing. That is horrible.
 
jmaneyapanda;637786 wrote: hThe crocodiles at the watering hole is not an artificial interaction forced in a captive setting by man. .
Click to expand...
Hmmm that kind of sounds like what I said about nature blah blah blah, oh wait it is what I said... :-)

You didn't say wild dogs you said puppies. The video had 2 bully crustaceans one on one, you are comparing that to a fierce predator going up against a nearly helpless animal, heck you should have just said feeding babies to lions...

So what is the difference between feeding the zebra to the lion and feeding fish to the bears?? A number of zoo's do that and people flock to see it...

In your opinion it is horrible in a number of others it is not. That is the great thing about opinions everyone has one and to each their own. Oh and if the Atlanta zoo announced they were going to start having live feedings of the lions, I would go and so would a number of other people. Captivity or not it is still nature, unlike feeding penguins to polar bears, that's just wrong.
 
slayers911;637795 wrote: Hmmm that kind of sounds like what I said about nature blah blah blah, oh wait it is what I said... :-)

You didn't say wild dogs you said puppies. The video had 2 bully crustaceans one on one, you are comparing that to a fierce predator going up against a nearly helpless animal, heck you should have just said feeding babies to lions...

So what is the difference between feeding the zebra to the lion and feeding fish to the bears?? A number of zoo's do that and people flock to see it...

In your opinion it is horrible in a number of others it is not. That is the great thing about opinions everyone has one and to each their own. Oh and if the Atlanta zoo announced they were going to start having live feedings of the lions, I would go and so would a number of other people. Captivity or not it is still nature, unlike feeding penguins to polar bears, that's just wrong.
Click to expand...

I know you sad that! :) Its the correct eduction. It is unnatural, for the sake of low brow entertainment!!

Uh, baby African wild dogs are.....puppies. Ok, lets say rabbits. Goats. Whatever. When its done without any respect for the animals and what is occurring it is degrading, manipulative, and crass.

I can Guarantee you this- NO zoo purposefully feeds LIVE animals to others unless it is absolutely necessary (ie- insects to some reptiles or inverts). And they would certainly NEVER promote it as a fun and comical thing. NEVER. Look at the sharks and other carnivores in any public institution. Always fed frozen or prepared foods. I GUARANTEE you, Zoo Atlanta will not EVER do live feeding, because the outcry would be immense, and the zoo would suffer in its peer reviews and requirements. I GUARANTEE it.

You are correct, this is an opinionated topic. But, there IS a line in the sand. Like I mentioned, dog fighting and cock fighting isnt condone or applauded, is it? What makes this beyond the "opinion"? Because it serves no purpose other than human entertainment, and is unethical to the animals. This video, while a natural occurance, isnt partrayed as that. Its portrayed as a game. How would you feel if I put a clownfish on the floor and let it dry up and die? And made a video poking fun, saying its fish jerky? How is THAT different than this? Both happen naturally. Im just presenting it in a tasteless way.

Edit: Just all my opinion. Nothing more!! :)
 
Hmmmm fish jerky.... lol

Jeremy you are my favorite person on here to debate with.

I will say dog and cock fighting are not condoned in the states, neither is bull fighting but it is still huge else where so it is strictly in the opinion category because we all have different morals and ethics.

Last thing. No comments on my polar bears and penguins line?! Come on that was classic! :-)
 
I agree- opinionated, but there is still a line in the sand. Some teenage girl in Yugoslavia (or something) posted a video of her throwing puppies in the river and laughing at them drowning. She has had nothing happen to her, but she has been decried as a villian. Not a problem, til you post some videos where youre mocking and marginalizing what it is. Then, its immediately innappropriate.

I like debating too. Its a discussion, and we will part having respect.

Now, WHAT penguin polar bear refernce?! I didnt see it!
 
jmaneyapanda;637821 wrote: I agree- opinionated, but there is still a line in the sand. Some teenage girl in Yugoslavia (or something) posted a video of her throwing puppies in the river and laughing at them drowning. She has had nothing happen to her, but she has been decried as a villian. Not a problem, til you post some videos where youre mocking and marginalizing what it is. Then, its immediately innappropriate.

I like debating too. Its a discussion, and we will part having respect.

Now, WHAT penguin polar bear refernce?! I didnt see it!
Click to expand...


LOL last line of my post that said now feeding a penguin to a polar bear now that is just wrong.

Have a great night all.
 
I still like the video

I have never owned a mantis shrimp, and to me, watching it kill and feed is an interesting experience. Yes, this person presented the video in a "cage match" sort of way, but all in all, that's just a label. In reality, all he did was feed his mantis shrimp. There are lots of things on the internet that people find disturbing. You can watch beheadings, torture, porn, murder, etc, etc... If you don't want to see it, don't click.
 
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