Trouble shooters/ advice needed

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

It’s me again!!! I am in need of your trouble shooting and advice. :doh:
My tank has improved significantly since I joined the ARC, but I am still struggling. I will give you the details and would love to hear your ideas of what I need to do to have successful reef tank. I even want to hear if you think I should start over.

Background: I’m the middle school Physical Science teacher who knows VERY LITTLE about Marine Biology or keeping saltwater aquariums. The more I learn from y’all, the more I realize how little I know. Here is a link to my initial thread if you are interested in more background…
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52783&highlight=teaching+marine+biology">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52783&highlight=teaching+marine+biology</a>

[B]Improvements:[/B]
· RO/DI water (won at Frag Meeting!!! Woohoo!) – Not having one was my BIGGEST mistake and the initial cause of the algae outbreak.
· Weekly 10% water changes. (~10-15 gallons a week)
· Refugium set-up with light.

[B]Issues:[/B]
· I still have an abundance of algae, but it is significantly improved.
· Most of my corals have bleached or are bleaching or choked out by the algae. Thank God for the Mint Palys, they seem to be doing great. The Frogspawn is struggling, and my dragon eye zoas were over taken by the algae.

[B]Specs:[/B]
· 72 gallon bow front with ~50 gallon sump/refugium
· Wave Point light- High output T5 Fluorescent 4 Lamp Lighting System
· One power head
· Protein skimmer- Current ph1200
[FONT=Symbol]· [COLOR=black]3 Blue Green Chromis
· 1 Lawn Mower Blenny (really fat):)
Small cleanup crew[/FONT][/COLOR]

[B]Parameters:[/B]
· SG= 1.02 (using float hydrometer) I have been trying to increase my salinity, but I never seem to add enough. I guess I am being too stingy?
· Temp= 72 F—I don’t have a heater. What would you suggest?
· Lighting= 6 hours
· pH= 8.2
· Nitrite= 0 ppm
· Ammonia= .25 ppm
· Nitrate= 5.0 ppm

[B]Ideas for solution:[/B]
[FONT=Calibri]1. [/FONT]Increase flow- add a couple of power heads
[FONT=Calibri]2. [/FONT]Increase temp- heaters
[FONT=Calibri]3. [/FONT]Vacuum/ siphon

I realize I need these (school tank and money long gone), so I would like to hear specific types and the cheapest possible option. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I have had so many generous offers for corals, but right now, I feel that I am the tank of death and don't want to wish that on any other beautiful animals until I get my issues fixed. (although my fish and inverts seem happy).

I'll post pictures soon.

dawgface · Apr 8, 2011

You need to raise salinity for sure but more important is your ammonia.... should be 0! Algae from what I understand will not kill or grow on live tissue, your coral is more likely dieing from ammonia. How much live rock do you have? How long has the tank been set up?

Edit: Giving the above statements, I would immediately do a 30% water change and retest for ammonia. Then if that checks out better I would commit myself to 20% water changes weekly.

Disclaimer: I am no expert, haven't been doing this long but I did have your problem in the beginning. The water changes effectively took care of my problems. Hopefully someone with more expirence will chime in!

ralph atl · Apr 8, 2011

Salinity needs to be at 1.026 or 35 ppt

you need a heater, too!

if you leave more than you take out, algae will grow....

dawgface · Apr 8, 2011

I may have a heater for you... I have (2) 300 watt heaters and (1) 500 watt, once my 180 is rock n rolling if I don't need a all of them I'll give you one to increase the heat in there. However as long as it's stable at 72, you shouldn't have too many issues. I've seen plenty of tanks running at them temp and they are all fine.

Edit: FYI if you do purchase retail, Marine Design gives great discounts on school projects. Just get a letter from the school for validation of tank use.

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

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Edit: How much live rock do you have?

I have about 100 lbs between the display tank and sump/fuge

How long has the tank been set up?

I started cycling in late August and added Lenny (lawn mower blenny) in November. I wasn't using RO water until March.

I have never had ammonia until recently since I added the 3 chromis about a month ago. Since then, I have been feeding more. Lenny had plenty of algae to eat. I will definitely increase my % water change.

dawgface · Apr 8, 2011

So theres your problem with ammonia, your feeding too much or not exporting enough. How much are you feeding...exactly?

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

DawgFace;633931 wrote: So theres your problem with ammonia, your feeding too much or not exporting enough. How much are you feeding...exactly?

Well... Exactly is hard to say:blush:

I feed a pinch of flakes and/or pellets 1-2xs daily on Mon-Fri. Then on the weekends, nothing (not at school). I am afraid that I may be opening a whole new can of worms with this statement. I hope I am not stressing the fish with this schedule. I guess I should get an automatic feeder??? Reduce feeding??? I am ashamed of my cluelessness:unsure:.

Also, I would be happy to accept any un-needed heaters. Thank you so much for the offer. Hopefully, I can get my other issues dealt with too!

Thanks for helping!!!

cr500_af · Apr 8, 2011

I would suggest a multi-faceted approach...

Add more cleanup crew (if it really is "small")

Feed less (most fish, unless difficult feeders, can be perfectly happy with every other day or even less). An auto feeder is fine if you'd like the convenience (I'd recommend Eheim).

Raise your SG (and check the accuracy of your hydrometer against a known refractometer, they aren't known to be accurate). Do this with your water changes at a slightly higher SG than the tank, don't do it all at once.

Step up the water changes (your schedule would be great if it weren't for the algae battle).

It's not a cure, but a 2-day lights out period can knock back the algae somewhat and give you a leg up in the fight.

I can't tell what the powerhead in the pic is, but I'd also hazard a guess that you could use more flow.

Overfeeding is not usually a source of ammonia in a cycled tank as the bacteria colony can take care of that. Double check the ammonia result with a second test kit. If you truly have ammonia, then something very possibly caused a "mini-cycle" and you need to let that settle down. Overfeeding, without super mack daddy skimming, IS a huge source of phosphates (which fuel algae very effectively). Flakes are notorious offenders. I'd go to pellets once every other day if it were me.

jennm · Apr 8, 2011

If you're using an API test kit and getting a 0.25 reading, it's quite likely a false positive. Get a better kit or have your water tested someplace that does not use API and get that confirmed.

At this stage of the game, my $0.02 says there is no ammonia unless you've had some sort of major catastrophe.

You can slowly raise specific gravity by topping off with saltwater instead of RO for a week or so - and of course, monitor the tank's specific gravity while you do so.

When you mix new water for a water change make sure it's high enough not to dilute it back down again.

Temp definitely needs to come up. What type of thermometer are you using?

What's odd is that you report corals are "bleaching" - that frequently (but not always) speaks to a high temperature issue, not as much a low one. That's why I'm curious about what kind of thermometer you are using - want to make sure your reading is accurate. Usually the old-school glass thermometers are the most reliable, OR if you're using a digital one, have a glass one also, so you can make sure the digital one (which is easier to read) is accurate.

Jenn

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

Thanks for the input! I know that it seems curious that my corals are bleaching, but if you look at the (poor quality phone) pictures, this appears to be what is happening. If anyone notices that it is a different problem, please let me know. I am freely admitting my ignorance.

Based on your suggestions, I am going to implement the following plan:
<ol>
<li>Have water tested at LFS</li>
<li>Add to clean up crew</li>
<li>Increase salinity
<ul>
<li></li>
<li>I have an 18 gallon rubbermaid tote as my RO/ salt mix reservoir.</li>
<li>top off with salt water</li>
<li>What SG should that mix be until my tank salinity is within acceptable range?</li>
</ol></li>
<li>Increase water change volume
<ul>
<li></li>
<li>currently doing 10-15 gal/wk</li>
<li>Since my reservoir is only 18 gal, is it appropriate to do an 18 gal change 2x/wk? Should I do 3x/wk? Should I get a larger reserve tank?</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Decrease feedings
<ul>
<li>pellet food on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday? (remember, this is a school tank- no weekends)</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Increase temperature
<ul>
<li>Jenn, you asked about the thermometer I am using... here is a link to one similar http://www.petco.com/product/9183/PETCO-Aquarium-Hydrometer-with-Thermometer.aspx">http://www.petco.com/product/9183/PETCO-Aquarium-Hydrometer-with-Thermometer.aspx</a></li>
<li>due to the cheapness of it, both salinity and temp could be inaccurate</li>
<li>the water definitely feels cool</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Increase flow
<ul>
<li>looking for a couple of Koralia 2s CHEAP</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>Thanks again for the trouble shooting! If anyone has any other ideas to add or if you see an issue with the above plan of action, please let me know.

jennm · Apr 8, 2011

I'd fix the salinity issue before adding more clean up crew.

The thermometer is probably reasonably accurate but if you leave the device in the tank all the time, algae will grow on it and cause it to sink, thus skewing the reading.

A refractometer is best... but if you do use that hydrometer, remove it and clean it off regularly.

Jenn

rbredding · Apr 8, 2011

not sure what salt you're using, but for Seachem Reefsalt, I add 1/2 cup of salt per gallon of RODI water when I mix my salt..

may be better for you to buy saltwater from a local store until you get the mix right in your tank...

hammcd · Apr 8, 2011

bigger cuc

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

Hammcd;634113 wrote: bigger cuc

I'm not sure what this is.

gwhiz · Apr 8, 2011

marinecurious;634244 wrote: I'm not sure what this is.

Clean Up Crew.

rjrgroup · Apr 8, 2011

I have been to Adra's(sp?) school a couple of times to help. She had a huge algae problem months ago but it has dramatically decreased. A heater is a must IMO, sump is sitting on the concrete floor. Skimmer is small but not much of a bio-load yet so that's probably ok. She has had several lps that have melted away and the parms were fairly good last time I was there. There is very little flow through-out the tank hence the need for the koralias. They have been cycling the live rock in and out to kill of the algae and that is probably the source of the small ammonia spike. This tank needs flow and a tang...IMO. Did I forget anything?

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

Thanks everyone for the level headed advice. :thumbs:

Ok, I had my water tested at a LFS...
 
My test for Ammonia was wrong. So, the ammonia level is fine. 
 
Salinity is my problem. I am working on that now. I have realized that I need to be more regimented in the water change process. We are changing water weekly, but middle school students are not known for their exactness. I am going to be more vigilant in regulating how much water is removed and added in each water change and in the salt mixing process.
 
I will be addressing my temperature and flow issues ASAP. I am now in the market for powerheads and heater. I have been told to look for some Koralia 2s (x2). CHEAP but effective is my goal (since my husband isn’t real thrilled with me spending our money on a tank that my family doesn’t even see.)
 
Jenn- I noticed that in your consignment sale, that you have some used heaters and powerheads… would those be appropriate for me? I know that you are closed tomorrow, but maybe I can try to come by after school on Tuesday if you have any left. I’ll call before I come.
 
Randy- thanks again for coming to help!!! You are welcome in my class anytime.
 

Edit:

rjrgroup;634255 wrote: I have been to Adra's(sp?) school a couple of times to help.

Click to expand...

Audra

Edit: Also, once I get my water right, I will be adding to my cuc (thanks Hammcd and Gwhiz).

My next addition will be a Kole Yellow Eye Tang.

jennm · Apr 8, 2011

Yep, we can probably fix you up. You *might* want to sit tight til the weekend though... (see my sponsor forum lest I cross into "commercial" territory)...

Jenn

marinecurious · Apr 8, 2011

Thanks!

rbredding · Apr 8, 2011

good that you've got a plan...

on the salt:
I'd recommend starting by using a mixing bucket that already holds 10% of your tank volume.. (like a salt bucket that will hold 5 gals, will be perfect for up to 50gal tank)

Measure out the exact quantity of RODI water that you want to mix up and mark the bucket.. (ie. exactly 4 gallons).. then figure out how many half cup measuring scoops of salt to bring the water up to 1.025 (as I said earlier, reef salt by Seachem is 1/2 cup salt per gallon of RODI water)..

*mix the salt water up the day before - add water to the bucket, add salt to the bucket, place one of the MJ1200s from Jenn in the bucket to "stir" the water and ensure that you get a 100% dissolved solution

*and also make sure that you've put top-off water in the aquarium the day before, bringing it up to the "normal level"..

*after the salt water has mixed for 24 hrs (and your tank has been at the "normal level" for 24 hours), siphon off the exact amount of water that you plan on replacing (having a 2nd bucket, appropriately marked with even gallon volumes helps here)..

*replace the water you just siphoned with new salt water...

*clean up all the drips/spills that you've made in the process...

I always top off my tanks a couple times a week, this will help to keep the salinity in a tight range.. any salt creep you see on the edges of your equipment, spray on your lights, etc should always get brushed back into the tank (as long as it's clean and not dirtied by some contaminates). Allowing salt creep to form and then removing it from the tank/equipment will lower your salinity over time.. and until you are VERY familiar with how your salinity fluctuates throughout the week, check your salinity with a refractometer every couple days...

the tough part about keeping a healthy tank is the maintenance and testing.. as long as you've got time for that (and 25 helpers).. there's no reason that you shouldnt have a great tank for the class to enjoy.. the time to maintain and test is what usually gets us..

Trouble shooters/ advice needed

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