What's wrong with my sick nems?

[shanepike]

So for about three months now, give or take 6 weeks (I know, wide range, sorry), my two nems have looked really</em> rough. They did fine for months, and then three notable things happened:

<ol>
<li>Around November 1, I completely rescaped the tank, stirring up things in the process.</li>
<li>As part of the rescaping, I added a large rock that had been sitting outside for several months. I washed it thoroughly with the hose and let it dry completely before putting it in.</li>
<li>Not long after that (maybe a week, but I wouldn\'t swear to it), I fed each of my three nems a piece of silverside.</li>
</ol>
One of the nems was tiny. I awoke the morning after the silverside feeding to find him completely dead. Just totally wasted away. My assumption was that he killed himself trying to eat too large a piece. The other two seemed fine.

At some point after that -- I wish I could tell you how long -- the other nems started looking very</em> sickly. They had been in great health prior to that.

Here are two different images of what one of them looks like now:

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Obviously trying to tell exactly what caused it is next to impossible. I just give you all of that for backstory and in case it might be helpful.

What I really want to know is what is causing it and, obviously, what I can do to fix it.

I have been doing copious water changes in the hopes that whatever is poisoning the water (assuming something is) would eventually be gone. It hasn't worked, though.

The RO water I'm using has excellent TDS. (I had Pure Reef test it.)

I have tested nitrates, nitrites, phosphorous, and ammonia. All register as low as my Seachem test kits will register.

PH is in a normal range and stays consistent, and Mg is normal as well.

For what it's worth, I have lots of zoas & palys that used to open great that started not opening well about the same time the nems got sick, too.

Any thoughts as to what might be causing this?

 

[fishdude]

Is there any chance copper got in the tank or in the food? Do you have any shrimp in the tank? How are they doing?
-Nick

 

[dawgface]

Fishdude;937477 wrote: Is there any chance copper got in the tank or in the food? Do you have any shrimp in the tank? How are they doing?
-Nick

Considering zoas and plays also showing signs copper is a good guess. Possible the rock you put it had been exposed? Get a Poly Filter and throw it in a high flow area of your sump. If it turns the right color you have your answer there.

FYI package will tell you what color that is, I do not remember.

 

[shanepike]

I have never had any copper around anywhere. However</em>, I don't know if the big rock I put in might have had some. I'll check with the previous owner.

I did</em> have a peppermint shrimp disappear at roughly the same time all this happened. (Very roughly.) And come to think of it, I haven't seen my sexy shrimp in a long time. Hmmm...

 

[dawgface]

Sounding more and more like copper.

 

[shanepike]

DawgFace;937483 wrote: Get a Poly Filter and throw it in a high flow area of your sump. If it turns the right color you have your answer there.

Thanks! I'll do that.

If it is</em> copper, what can I do?

 

[dawgface]

How about snails and crabs?

 

[shanepike]

I have several nassarius and ceriths that have been doing fine for well over a month (well, they're alive at least), as well as a large emerald crab.

 

[dawgface]

If it's copper, take out the rock immediately. If you absolutely want the rock you'll need to extract all the copper out of it. It's time consuming but it can be done. I'd recommend getting rid of it just to be safe as copper can sit dormant for a long time before leaching back in to the system.

If your going to attempt to extract get a few extra poly filters and put them in a tub of water with a. Power heads. Get some acid buffer from a freshwater store to lower the PH to around 6.0. Change out poly filters weekly and until they no longer show copper in the filter. The last filter should be kept in for a long period, couple weeks minimum.

 

[dawgface]

Again assuming it is copper, treat the tank with poly filters as well. Place in sump much like above and until all signs are no longer present.

Do not lower the pH there obviously.

 

[dawgface]

If your confused ask Jorge from Pure Reef, he's the one that walked me through this process a few years ago.

 

[shanepike]

I'm always looking for a reason to go to Pure

Thanks for all the help, Nick & Jesse! I'll let you know what I find.

 

[dawgface]

You got it.

However just rereading your post, you commented that the rock had been sitting outside. I would wonder where this was sitting and whether or not garden or lawn pesticides, fertilizers or other agents could have been inadvertently sprayed on it?

 

[shanepike]

Good thought, but I don't think it's likely. It was up on my deck well above the yard.

Something always could have blown, though. Who knows.

 

[jimmystephens]

U could get a copper test kit and check

 

[jennm]

Jimmy beat me to it. A copper test is the sure way to know.

DawgFace also beat me to it - could be a multitude of things, not just copper. However, if it was a toxin like a pesticide, the fish would probably suffer too.

If it was copper the snails would bite the dust pretty quickly. Crabs too, but I've seen them tolerate a trace. Snails, not so much. Copper would kill the shrimp.

If it was an insecticide, that might account for inverts dying but not vertebrates (ie fish) but the snails surviving it doesn't make me think that's the case.

Polyfilter, if you haven't done it yet, will tell you something, or it will tell you nothing. Meaning, a colour change may indicate the presence of copper or iron (another heavy metal). If it just goes from white to tan to brown (and eventually nearly black) then it's just removing organics.

If it was a fertilizer, you'd see elevated phosphate in your chemistry.

It could be a coincidence with 'that rock'. Was kind of rock is it? Was it live rock once, or some other kind of rock?

Jenn

 

[shanepike]

Poly Filter is in. We'll see

In the meantime, phosphorous is as low as my test kit measures it, but</em> I do have more hair algae than I've had in a long time. I know it could be that the algae is using it all. And FWIW, I've been battling cyano for at least 2 or 3 months now.

It could totally be coincidence with the rock, but that's definitely our prime suspect. It was in Jef4y's tank covered in bryopsis before I sat it outside for months. I'm going to try to calculate for sure, but wanted to get this in before the board went down.

 

[shanepike]

OK, looks like it sat outside for right at three months: Aug, Sep, and Oct

 

[shanepike]

Alright, the Poly Filter has been sitting in the sump right between the filter sock and the return pump for 41 hours now. It definitely is turning tan, but there is no other color whatsoever.

Unless people have other recommendations, the next thing I'm going to try is completely changing the food. Maybe something's gone bad with the Rod's I've been feeding or something. I'm thinking between switching food and a big water change or two, I should be able to see some sort of improvement if the food is having anything to do with it.

If I don't see any improvement, I guess the next thing is to take out the big rock and see if anything changes. I'd go ahead and do that now but a) it's a big</em> rock and, thus, quite a chore, b) I'm not sure that's it (though it sure seems likely), and c) one of the nems is actually attached to it.

Changing the food is just an easier, quicker test before undertaking a complete re-rockscaping.

 

[frag freak]

Were you direct feeding the neem before it started its decline?

I bout a used tank once w a need that looked EXACTLY the same....pitiful.... the guy said he hadnt been feeding it and it might come back- it never did. I have since added two neems to the same tank and direct feeding and they are growing rapidly.


Could this be the case??

Just talking out loud.