What's wrong with my sick nems?

[shanepike]

Good question. Yes, I had fed them directly several times, and most notably right before the decline (though the timing could easily be coincidental). I have also fed them a little directly a few times in the last couple of weeks with no noticeable change.

 

[shanepike]

Just had a thought: would too much light make them do this? I'm not sure when I put the new light above this tank. I have it turned down "low," but I have been (very) wrong before when just trying to eyeball it.

 

[frag freak]

I have had clowns beat a small neem to death..I forgot to mention as possible suspect.

idk if you even have them in your stocking list but something to consider if you do and they were hosting it.

 

[frag freak]

And to much light (or spectrum intensity) can bleach/ kill most any coral.

 

[shanepike]

frag freak;939215 wrote: I have had clowns beat a small neem to death..I forgot to mention as possible suspect.

idk if you even have them in your stocking list but something to consider if you do and they were hosting it.

Great thought -- and my maroons live</em> in these things -- but I don't think that's it. The nems were good size to begin with and</em> that wouldn't have had any effect on the zoas and palys not opening.

 

[jennm]

Could be a combination of things. Changing light can and will cause them to 'change' (ie shrink to avoid the light if it's brighter than they can tolerate right away).

Bad food - possibly. This may seem like a stupid question but do you thaw the food first? (Please don't be offended, I once had a customer have 3 or so anemones perish before I asked that question and he was placing frozen food directly on the tentacles while it was still frozen and killed the anemones - so now - I ASK.) Given that in the wild it's likely that anemones catch flotsam that might be less than fresh, I don't think that 'rotten food' might be the cause, but I'm not sure on that either way.

Whatever the cause of them shrinking, aggressive wallowing by clowns can beat an anemone to death. So if you have a combination of things going on - perhaps light causing them to retract some, then the clowns beating them up trying to make them open big again... that can be enough to cause their demise.

As for the Polyfilter - tan is good - that's just normal organic waste it's picking up. No pastel colours rules out copper or iron or other heavy metals. IMO it's probably not that rock, but you might be on to something where the change in lighting is concerned, and there rest followed.

Jenn

 

[shanepike]

Thanks for taking the time to go through all that, Jenn! I really appreciate it. I'm really starting to lean toward the lighting. It has to be something that's affecting both the nems and the zoas & palys (or so I believe). Maybe it is</em> the rock, but this would be so much easier and faster to test. I think maybe I'll cut it way down and see if I notice any change in anything over the next couple of days.

And just so you don't feel bad: No, I have never thawed it completely. I do hold the silverside piece in the water until I feel it get good and soft, but it's definitely still got a little chill to it. My other three nems always ate them right up but especially with the tiny guy in this tank, maybe it was not thawed enough

 

[camellia]

If the food is colder than the water temp it will stress them out, that could be the problem!

 

[shanepike]

More than once in my life, I've had a mystery that just refused to be solved. I thought of that yesterday and, most importantly, that the answer was usually something absolutely basic that I was taking for granted.

So this morning, off I trekked to Pure Reef to get them to test everything</em> with my water -- no matter how basic.

Welp, it didn't take long. On maybe the very first test, I found out my salinity was 1.021. (Not surprisingly, many of my other levels were low as a result, though not critically like the salinity.) Apparently, my refractometer wasn't accurately calibrated like I thought it was, so who knows how long I've been gradually lowering the salinity?

So we're headed back up now. I'll creep up the salinity gradually over the next several days and see what effect that has. I certainly expect to see a difference

 

[joseayes]

Funny to me that I mentioned on my fs threat, salinity being off, anyway, glad you have found the culprit, or at least a possible solution to it, the other possible cause that I was going to say before was stray voltage, I don't believe it could be a reason here but I always been thinking on faulty equipment like powerheads or pumps, I believe this could affect some of the inhabitants, I always want to get some of those grounding probes to be in the safe zone on that matter, hopefully is not what is happening in your tank now

Status: quo

 

[indecloudzua]

I feed mine small cubes of silversides..ever try them?

 

[shanepike]

joseayes;939764 wrote: Funny to me that I mentioned on my fs threat, salinity being off, anyway, glad you have found the culprit, or at least a possible solution to it, the other possible cause that I was going to say before was stray voltage

Yep, this crossed my mind too. I've got my hand in the tank a lot, though, and didn't feel anything, so I wasn't leaning toward that.

indecloudzua;939766 wrote: I feed mine small cubes of silversides..ever try them?

I just break off pieces of whole little silversides.

 

[r6acer]

I have have three rbta'a that started off a one 3 yrs ago that I do not feed at all anymore they just do fine. But when I first got him I did direct feed frozen mysis still slightly frozen any he loved it so feeding frozen food doesn't affect them all that bad. But if you are direct feeding them they will split faster.

 

[jennm]

And I usually ask about salinity... I saw your other parameters posted, and assumed you'd checked that too.... you know what happens when you assume

Glad you figured it out - that's quite likely the cause.

Keep us posted as you get things back to where they should be!

Jenn

 

[shanepike]

It wouldn't have helped anyway I watch my salinity closely and would have just told you it was 1.024, because that's what my refractometer was telling me.

Having a second set of eyes on something is often very</em> helpful.

 

[shanepike]

The salinity has been in the correct range (and steady) for several days now, but nothing is looking any better and</em> a few recent additions (brought in as a test) are starting to exhibit the same symptoms.

So, my conclusion now is that it's something leaching out from one of the rocks -- most likely the big one since the symptoms started after it (and nothing else) went in, and because it still hasn't depleted after several months and countless water changes.

I was preparing water for a 50% water change for after I remove the big rock, but then it hit me: How possible is it that whatever's leaching out is also</em> being soaked up by the other rock in the tank, only to leach back out again at some point? Do I just need to wholesale change 100% of the rock in the tank? I'm thinking that's the obvious safe move, but I wondering if it's really necessary or if I'm being overly</em> cautious.

I guess I could remove the big rock and carry on and see if things improve or not. I just don't know at this point. Just thinking out loud I guess...

 

[jennm]

It could just be the anemones are past the point of no return.

If the Polyfilter and water tests didn't reveal the presence of copper or anything else, IMO it's probably NOT that.

Just my humble opinion.

Jenn

 

[shanepike]

Well, your humble opinion is worth more than anyone else's I know, so there's that

Even if the nems were too far gone, though, I can't think of a way that that would affect new</em> inhabitants.

It's entirely possible that the big rock got sprayed by bug spray or something outside. (Well, bug spray. I can't think of anything else likely.) I'm not sure how likely that is, but it's at least a possibility. I'm going to:
<ol>
<li>Move the nems, new inhabitants, and a couple old zoas over to a fresh tank with just enough rock from the old tank to keep things in balance.</li>
<li>Move the big rock out of the DT and replace it only with water.</li>
</ol>
Hopefully that will give the nems time to recover without the maroons bashing them 24/7.

 

[jennm]

I missed the bit about new stuff looking funky too. Were they added before or after the issue with specific gravity was discovered (and corrected?)

If there was bug spray, IMO your inverts would have all died. Fast.

That rock - was it soaked, rinsed or other wise washed before you put it in the tank? Or did it go from sitting outside on somebody's porch (sic) and straight into your tank?

Jenn

 

[shanepike]

No, I hosed it off very thoroughly (or so I believe). Blasted it from several angles, several times and then let it dry completely.

And yes, the new stuff was added once the salinity was corrected and</em> had been running steady for several days. I wanted to see if the zoas and nems just still weren't healthy enough to open yet or if there were still problems.

And just for more detail: I have a ton of palys and zoas that haven't opened in I can't remember when, but</em> they haven't died either. (Well, most of them haven't died.) They're still there, and I can see color peeking out. It's like they want to open, but neither flow changes now lighting changes have made any difference. Between that and the nems being sick, I'm assuming it has to be something in the water. Obviously the low salinity seemed like the culprit, but I have corrected it and</em> had Pure Reef double-check me just to make sure.