Another Bryopsis Thread
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So if we could figure out the appropriate level of "said" trace element(s) and maintain that alone, it could be a lot cheaper than going through gallons of tech M. If it is copper, that would seem like risky business, most copper products contain more than just copper. Cuprimine, for example, contains formaldehyde. Seachem doesn't come out and say the ingredients, but you can smell the unmistakable smell of formaldehyde.
A couple references said the normal level of copper in seawater is .25 ppb., but outside magnesium, chlorine, sulfate, and calcium it could conceivably be any one of the following:
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Deionized water containing the following elements (as ions): magnesium, chlorine, sulfur, calcium, potassium, bromine, strontium, boron, fluorine, lithium, rubidium, iodine, iron, molybdenum, zinc, nickel, copper, manganese, vanadium, cesium, cobalt, tungsten, selenium, and chromium.
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I talked with Sanjay Joshi about Tech M/Bryopsis at the February Frag Meeting, and his guess was that it was the Selenium in the Tech M that was killing the bryopsis. As to why selenium, I don't know his rationale. I could not find anything that links selenium to any algae killing topics. Tons about copper, but not selenium.
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Deionized water containing the following elements (as ions): magnesium, chlorine, sulfur, calcium, potassium, bromine, strontium, boron, fluorine, lithium, rubidium, iodine, iron, molybdenum, zinc, nickel, copper, manganese, vanadium, cesium, cobalt, tungsten, selenium, and chromium.
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I talked with Sanjay Joshi about Tech M/Bryopsis at the February Frag Meeting, and his guess was that it was the Selenium in the Tech M that was killing the bryopsis. As to why selenium, I don't know his rationale. I could not find anything that links selenium to any algae killing topics. Tons about copper, but not selenium.
I know of one Scopas tang that eats it. It was originally owned by Cliff, then went to Robb. Cliff swore it ate bryopsis. We all pretty much laughed at that.
Later it was discovered that Cliff deserved an apology... Robb tested it by "giving" it a frag w/Bryopsis on it, and it did in fact eat it.
Control rather than elimination, I agree, but may be useful info to somebody (and may make the fish rather valuable
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Later it was discovered that Cliff deserved an apology... Robb tested it by "giving" it a frag w/Bryopsis on it, and it did in fact eat it.
Control rather than elimination, I agree, but may be useful info to somebody (and may make the fish rather valuable
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From what I have gathered, magnesion is too pure. Brightwells makes another product that is their version of tech m. I did a test using strontium chloride on hair algae(not bryopsis). I raised the levels significantly on a 500 gallon system every 3 days. The system consisted of a 210 and 2 92 corners all plumbed together. With a little manual labor and consistent strontium dosing, it all died off. The tanks did not have bryopsis, but it did help kill the diatoms and hair
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Could we send tech m and others to a lab and get the actual levels that are in each. That way we could determine the difference?
Edit: If it is expensive maybe we could get donations from memebers to cover the cost. Or maybe even ARC can pay for it and get major recongnition if we could figure out and make something just for bryposis?
Edit: If it is expensive maybe we could get donations from memebers to cover the cost. Or maybe even ARC can pay for it and get major recongnition if we could figure out and make something just for bryposis?
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I'm at 1750 per seachem's mg test. It's been up above 1600 for a while now. A Loy has died off, but I still get (significantly slower) new growth. Coral magazine has an add for brightwell's new (less pure) hydrated magnesium salts: hydrat-mg. They actually advertise the stuff for bryopsis in a round about way. They claim that magnesion is composed of high purity anhydrous magnesium salts and that it won't produce the same results.
Whoever develops a purpose made chemical product that actually eliminates bryopsis willl make a lotta money.
Seachem makes a product that does the same thing for a freshwater algae that is a real scourge: BBA or black beard algae. You see this in LFS sometimes. A really fine, dense hair algae about 1/4-1/2" in length. Can grow on anything and nothing eats it.
The SeaChem product is not intended or sold as an algae killer, like Tech M, but it kills BBA. It is sold as a carbon source for planted tanks. It is called Excel. It works, but has to be overdosed at 2x standard levels. It can kill Discus, and it makes some FW species temporarily swim around acting drunk.
A friend of mine accidently killed several hundred dollars worth of Discus I gifted her with it. Hard way to discover the effect.
Seachem makes a product that does the same thing for a freshwater algae that is a real scourge: BBA or black beard algae. You see this in LFS sometimes. A really fine, dense hair algae about 1/4-1/2" in length. Can grow on anything and nothing eats it.
The SeaChem product is not intended or sold as an algae killer, like Tech M, but it kills BBA. It is sold as a carbon source for planted tanks. It is called Excel. It works, but has to be overdosed at 2x standard levels. It can kill Discus, and it makes some FW species temporarily swim around acting drunk.
A friend of mine accidently killed several hundred dollars worth of Discus I gifted her with it. Hard way to discover the effect.
marinedesigns
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For the record the tank that Acroholic is reffering to is the new show tank at Marine Designs. That being said the conversation had was that I don't believe in completely disrupting the water chemistry to solve a problem that in my opinion can be controlled naturally by nutrient control. It is true that Bryopsis can live in very low nutrient water however it can be controlled in my personal experience. As there are many success stories there are also many unsuccessful stories that include inverts dying (mainly snails), bleaching Monti Caps, and Dying Acro's not to mention the Bryopsis returning. A customer just this week tried the Kent Tech M treatment and yes bleached all of his Monti Caps...I will not resort to or recommend a treatment like this unless it is the last resort. I have a maintenance company that services a ton of tanks and yes I have dealt with Bryopsis "once or twice". That being said the conversation was had 3 days ago and...I have not one stalk of algae left in said tank. Just maybe a LFS might have a clue.
Addressing the difference between control and ellimination it has been proven that maintaining poor water quality can result in many types of algae including Bryopsis. If you eliminate the food source it will die including the roots. It is tough but it can be done. I believe in both...control of excess nutrient and animals to help with maintenance.The benifit this approach is generally speaking if you have super clean water which especially in an SPS tank you will see better results.
Edit: Wow... that last sentence of the previous post made no sense. Again The benefit is that generally speaking if you have super clean water your SPS corals will love it.
Addressing the difference between control and ellimination it has been proven that maintaining poor water quality can result in many types of algae including Bryopsis. If you eliminate the food source it will die including the roots. It is tough but it can be done. I believe in both...control of excess nutrient and animals to help with maintenance.The benifit this approach is generally speaking if you have super clean water which especially in an SPS tank you will see better results.
Edit: Wow... that last sentence of the previous post made no sense. Again The benefit is that generally speaking if you have super clean water your SPS corals will love it.
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It would have if you read his whole response
marinedesigns
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Also I'm not quit sure of the reply earlier about never to buy a frag at Marine Designs...I'm not quit sure where that comes from but I assume someone had a negative experience. As most of you know I am more than happy to take care of most any problems or issues...but to do so the issue has to be brought to my attention.
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I think you took that too personal, Dave, being the stand up guy that he is, never mentioned your name, MorganAtlanta said that was saying that because the tank had bryposis. MorganAtlanta said it so Dave wouldn't reinfest his tank with it. I had no idea who this thread was about untill you popped in. I didn't take the guys response as dont buy frags from your store. He said it to remind Dave that in the future just because you cant see the bryposis doesn't mean the roots aren't still alive, which in turn could infest Dave's tank with it. I took it as a friendly discussion without the disclosure of who's tank it was so it wouldn't damage the Owner of the tanks reputation. I hope you guys can get it straightned out because my interpritation of this thread was not meant to damage a LFS reputation or buisness.
marinedesigns
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This a new show tank that has had water in it for 2 1/2 weeks... not a for sale system. The algae was from cycling.
I would have to agree, keeping low nutrients and and proper water chemistry is the only way I found to control bryopsis. But there has been others that have had success with raising the magnesium to higher then normal levels. There is no way that tank will grow much or any unwanted algae, the equipment is top notch and the amount of GFO and Carbon being ran would in my opinion be a very low nutrient tank. Unless you are going to turn it into a shark tank
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